On-the-spot fines planned for careless driving - Page 2

Pierre · 11-05-2011, 14:30

If you feel the police have got it wrong, you can still go to court and argue your case.

I frequently pass traffic on the left hand side on motorways.

In fact the person who is hogging the fast lane or middle lane and refusing to move left if the one that should be done for "careless driving". In those instance I don't the police would penalise you.

The Highway code states:

Quote:

Highway Code rule 268 advises against undertaking on a motorway: "Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake"[4]. On other roads you can "only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right" (rule 163). On all roads, undertaking is permitted if the vehicles in the lane to the right are queueing and slow moving.[5] Undertaking in an aggressive or reckless manner could be considered Careless Driving or more seriously Dangerous Driving, both of which are legally enforceable offences.

As you can see it's far from black and white. especially:

Quote:

undertaking is permitted if the vehicles in the lane to the right are queueing and slow moving

It doesn't define "queing"

If a car in the right hand lane is doing say 60mph, and there is a line of cars behind it, then that could quite correctly be defined as queing, and in relation to the speed limit "slow moving"

So if you undertake in a "non-aggressive" manner then I fail to see how the police could do you.

And if they did, go to court and argue your case.

Even if you lost it's very doubtful you would be penalised anymore that the original fixed penalty.

Uncle Peter · 11-05-2011, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground

Same here. People often do 50mph on a congested motorway which turns into 2 lanes then 3 again over 500 yards. I come off at that junction so I'm often forced to undertake because of the congestion. It would make me miss the junction to go around the other side.

Fair play when it isn't busy and you get the idiot-not-paying-attention brigade tootling along in the outside lane but when it's particularly busy then things have to be looked at in a different way, eg: HGV drivers will move into lane 2 well in advance of a junction, for perfectly good reasons. This causes problems because impatient people in the slowing line of traffic end up flying out into the outside lane often without indicating causing the usual panic-breaking domino effect back down the line.

If some sections of motorway were managed better then this wouldn't be an issue, ie: more use of reduced limit matrix signs well in advance of busy junctions and more use of adaptive traffic management such as the system in use on the M42.

Arthurgray50@blu · 11-05-2011, 17:25

This has to be a joke, for many reasons, IT WON'T BE ENFORCED and why ?, A few years ago it was an offence to drive whilst using a mobile phone, is it enforced NO,

Auhtorities, are worrired that the culprits will take it to court and nine times out of ten the courts will just rap there wrists.

IF this has to be enforced by fining careless driving, then they have to hit everyone.

11-05-2011, 17:35

It's a good idea i think ,i don't know how they will enforce it but the principle is sound and very workable if the police have the rescources to enforce it .My only concern is that they take rescources away from other areas in order to fund this ,also will they use it as a way to raise money as with speed cameras

Derek · 11-05-2011, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

This has to be a joke, for many reasons, IT WON'T BE ENFORCED and why ?, A few years ago it was an offence to drive whilst using a mobile phone, is it enforced NO,

Oh yes it is. Sadly there isn't a big box full of cops that can magically be everywhere to catch all the people who use their phones in the car. I'd say that giving out tickets for going through red lights and being on a mobile are the two most enforced traffic laws there are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Auhtorities, are worrired that the culprits will take it to court and nine times out of ten the courts will just rap there wrists.

Again a bit simplistic. Most people who drive can and do get hit with big fines if they decide to contest the tickets they are issued with.

**Maggy** · 11-05-2011, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

This has to be a joke, for many reasons, IT WON'T BE ENFORCED and why ?, A few years ago it was an offence to drive whilst using a mobile phone, is it enforced NO,

Auhtorities, are worrired that the culprits will take it to court and nine times out of ten the courts will just rap there wrists.

IF this has to be enforced by fining careless driving, then they have to hit everyone.

On the spot Arthur.No court involved.I think the few remaining police will do their best.

Derek · 11-05-2011, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

If these offences are still to accompanied by penalty points the surely only a court is the place for this to be decided. If it were just a ticket and fine then I would support it.

Plenty of offences already dealt with by fixed penalties come with points attached. All this is doing is expanding the crimes that can be dealt with by them.

Arthurgray50@blu · 11-05-2011, 19:40

All these laws that are brought out, are not enforced whatsoever, the mobile phone for example, If l went to the top of my road PCs could make a fortune, you can count on ten mobile users,within minutes and going through a no entry sign.

They bring these rules out, its a waste of time - theres no bill about

budwieser · 11-05-2011, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

All these laws that are brought out, are not enforced whatsoever, the mobile phone for example, If l went to the top of my road PCs could make a fortune, you can count on ten mobile users,within minutes and going through a no entry sign.

They bring these rules out, its a waste of time - theres no bill about

**Maggy** · 11-05-2011, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

All these laws that are brought out, are not enforced whatsoever, the mobile phone for example, If l went to the top of my road PCs could make a fortune, you can count on ten mobile users,within minutes and going through a no entry sign.

They bring these rules out, its a waste of time - theres no bill about

Well I can count on the fingers of one hand how many people I have seen using mobile phones whilst driving this year.Me thinks that once again you are exaggerating..Of course if you can find the data to back up your assertions then maybe I would believe you but until YOU do I'll ignore the ranting.

Sparkle · 12-05-2011, 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Well I can count on the fingers of one hand how many people I have seen using mobile phones whilst driving this year.Me thinks that once again you are exaggerating..Of course if you can find the data to back up your assertions then maybe I would believe you but until YOU do I'll ignore the ranting.

I could count on one hand the number of people I've seen using mobiles whilst driving within the last 2 days. Within the last 7 days I'd need more hands than I've got.

Derek · 12-05-2011, 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkle

I could count on one hand the number of people I've seen using mobiles whilst driving within the last 2 days. Within the last 7 days I'd need more hands than I've got.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Well I can count on the fingers of one hand how many people I have seen using mobile phones whilst driving this year.Me thinks that once again you are exaggerating..Of course if you can find the data to back up your assertions then maybe I would believe you but until YOU do I'll ignore the ranting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

All these laws that are brought out, are not enforced whatsoever, the mobile phone for example, If l went to the top of my road PCs could make a fortune, you can count on ten mobile users,within minutes and going through a no entry sign.

Swings and roundabouts. In the rare occasions I have spare time at work and don't fancy stop-searching fans of Afghanistans national product there are a few places I sit at attempting to catch motorists on phones or ignoring red lights.

Sometimes you catch someone, sometimes you don't it's the luck of the draw. The only thing pretty much guaranteed is that whenever you have a prisoner in the back you'll see all manner of road based law breaking when you can't do anything about it.

Welshchris · 12-05-2011, 06:57

I wonder how many women wont like this lol :-x

---------- Post added at 07:57 ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkle

I could count on one hand the number of people I've seen using mobiles whilst driving within the last 2 days. Within the last 7 days I'd need more hands than I've got.

Nose picking is also another distraction when driving.

Gary L · 12-05-2011, 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshchris

Nose picking is also another distraction when driving.

That and all the advert billboards and such. if the right people weren't making money from it they'd say no you can't put them up as they're a distraction to road users.

a bit like the streets on recycling day. a right mess with tubs and buckets all over the place. obstructing the footpaths and everything. but it doesn't count because it's the council.

a bit like when the fire service have an open day on some grass down your road, and the little kids are setting the sirens and horns off for 4 hours non stop. it doesn't count as anti social because it's the fire service.

bib your horn as you drive past though. and they look at you like you're an idiot

tweetiepooh · 12-05-2011, 09:21

Or you could remain in lane 2 if there is an incoming junction ahead to better allow joining traffic safely in. Or maybe there is a hazard in the lane that the speeders behind you can't see.

Me thinks lane discipline is more complex and needs to evolve with conditions. If traffic is lightish but there are intermittent slow traffic in lane 1 and lane 3 is free and clear, staying in lane 2 may be a safer alternative that switching into lane 1 and then out again. Or if you are in lane 2 but with heavy traffic coming up behind and you are at the speed limit, staying out so you don't get stuck in lane 1.