When The 50MB Rollout Is Done - New Tier Thoughts - Page 2

AbyssUnderground · 25-04-2009, 17:17

Thing about capacity issues at peak time is I thought that would be "solved" when 20Mbps is moved to the new DOCSIS3 backend?

broadbandking · 25-04-2009, 18:54

I very much doubt all of the problem of capcity will be solved with the 20Mb users been moved to DOCSIS 3.0

AbyssUnderground · 25-04-2009, 19:09

Well its bound to make a big difference at least, right? That was part of the idea of the move...

jcm193 · 25-04-2009, 19:16

When 20Mb users are moved to DOCSIS 3.0 is this not just going to cause problems to existing 50 meg customers as these two tiers have the most traffic on them

broadbandking · 25-04-2009, 19:16

The idea was to try and use the extra bandwidth so some improvment will be there but with the some area too many customers sharing the same cable it won;t make that much difference to them.

Virgin want there customers to think ooo wow new network that will solve all the slow down problems it won't it will fix it for a short term but in the long more money and work needs to be done on the network

AbyssUnderground · 25-04-2009, 19:22

Which they can't currently afford to do after the 50Mbps upgrade... So its going to be the same problems as before. I don't know why they didn't just bring in 30Mbps instead of 50Mbps, and reduce the impact on performance its going to have while they get money to upgrade enough to properly introduce 50Mbps... I'm blabbing again

Turkey Machine · 25-04-2009, 19:22

I'd like Option 1 out of those, but we all know Virgin Media won't implement what's best for their customers.

If they flicked the switch on DOCSIS 1.1 for *every* modem / STB, it'd flag up who uses the service illegally, who's using out of date equipment (STB broadband is SO 2001), and pave the way for a move to DOCSIS 2 so the network can finally be reasonably up to date!!

jcm193 · 25-04-2009, 19:25

According to VM Where I live the the DOCSIS 3.0 network is running at only 1% utalisation on the 50 meg tier and the service is awful,god knows how bad it will be when the 20 meg customers come onboard.

broadbandking · 25-04-2009, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcm193

When 20Mb users are moved to DOCSIS 3.0 is this not just going to cause problems to existing 50 meg customers as these two tiers have the most traffic on them

20Mb users will be using DOCSIS 2.0 and 50Mb will be using DOCSIS 3.0 plus will have 4 channel to use, plus the channels will be increased due to the analogue signal been turned off best ask broadbandings or popper if I am correct I am still learning

Ignitionnet · 25-04-2009, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadbandking

20Mb users will be using DOCSIS 2.0 and 50Mb will be using DOCSIS 3.0 plus will have 4 channel to use, plus the channels will be increased due to the analogue signal been turned off best ask broadbandings or popper if I am correct I am still learning

Eventually, which is what I was thinking of with the poll, both 10 and 20Mbit will be on the DOCSIS 3 network in backwards compatible mode, running as DOCSIS 2.

There may be, again eventually, multiple groups of 4 downstreams however this is unlikely in the shorter term due to upstream restrictions. My own area had to have a 3.2MHz slice of spectrum taken away from the legacy network for use on the DOCSIS 3 platform because there was no room for a 5th DOCSIS upstream here and that's not uncommon.

---------- Post added at 19:34 ---------- Previous post was at 19:30 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by chickendippers

I'm totally against monthly limits, it doesn't solve the problem at all. The problem is available bandwidth at peak times, caps do nothing to curb usage during peak times.

Monthly limits reduce average usage during all times, as the people who are most likely to cane the network will go elsewhere, or will pay extra for a wideband service.

AbyssUnderground · 25-04-2009, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Monthly limits reduce average usage during all times, as the people who are most likely to cane the network will go elsewhere, or will pay extra for a wideband service.

Or they'll download at other times, spreading the load over a wider time thus the average being lower

Ignitionnet · 25-04-2009, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground

Or they'll download at other times, spreading the load over a wider time thus the average being lower

No, that's what STM is supposed to do in theory, however it doesn't do much to slow people down who are collecting Blu Ray and not that bothered about their browsing. A monthly cap reduces network load across the whole spectrum, promotes the XXL tier, and in addition removes 4% of the user base from throttling all together.

AbyssUnderground · 25-04-2009, 19:59

That may be true but when you think about it if there is no STM, people won't wait to do their downloads until after 9pm and then hit the network with a load it can't handle. If there was no STM, people would download as and when they needed, meaning the network wouldn't have such a high peak time at 9pm when STM is no longer a threat. That in turn would reduce the actual need for STM as the peak load wouldn't be so high.

I do understand what you mean though, for someone who downloads a lot lot more than average and downloads virtually constantly anyway, its not going to affect them in the slightest.

Ignitionnet · 25-04-2009, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground

That may be true but when you think about it if there is no STM, people won't wait to do their downloads until after 9pm and then hit the network with a load it can't handle. If there was no STM, people would download as and when they needed, meaning the network wouldn't have such a high peak time at 9pm when STM is no longer a threat. That in turn would reduce the actual need for STM as the peak load wouldn't be so high.

I do understand what you mean though, for someone who downloads a lot lot more than average and downloads virtually constantly anyway, its not going to affect them in the slightest.

Caps would reduce the overall usage and cause people to spread usage throughout the peak period rather than the present issue where there's a bloody great spike in usage after 9PM as STM is switched off

STM is there so that people on 20Mbit can't eat over 50% of the single downstream all the time over the course of an evening - a non-issue with migration to 51Mbps 256QAM EuroDOCSIS.

jcm193 · 25-04-2009, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbyssUnderground

That may be true but when you think about it if there is no STM, people won't wait to do their downloads until after 9pm and then hit the network with a load it can't handle. If there was no STM, people would download as and when they needed, meaning the network wouldn't have such a high peak time at 9pm when STM is no longer a threat. That in turn would reduce the actual need for STM as the peak load wouldn't be so high.

I do understand what you mean though, for someone who downloads a lot lot more than average and downloads virtually constantly anyway, its not going to affect them in the slightest.

I have to agree with this or to use another example when we used to have last orders 10.30pm most people would get as many drinks as possible now the licencing laws are different most people spread out the drinking through out the night, I think if there was not stm the average user would spread downloads though out a longer period and so the network would have a lower average load. I think the stm is a smokescreen for the fact that VM have totally oversold on there network and the only way to keep things under control is to penalise people already on the network sorry for my grammer etc I have dyslexia.