Muslims should expect to be stopped....

[gazzae]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Yeah but doesn't it really p*** you off that you're instantly under suspicion? I was stopped at Aldergrove on my way to Bristol, pulled aside, had every single case emptied, was physically searched then cross examined for the best part of an hour about why I was going to see friends in England and only just managed to get my flight. I think the solution is pretty clear ... STOP ANNOYING UNSTABLE MIDDLE EASTERN COUNTRIES! (that last bit's a joke before anyone mounts their oversized horse)

I've never had anything like that, when I've been stopped its been for about 10 minutes where I filled in a form and then the police officer took the form and my passport away and then came back 10 minutes later and sent me on my way. That said on both occasions I wasn't actually staying in England, I was transferring onto an international flight.

I don't know what the success rate of this method is, but if they are successful in catching people using this method then I can live with it.

[TigaSefi]

everytime I been to and from Israel's Ben Gurion's International airport, I have had my suitcase opened and inspected and this all takes about 45 mins. I am ok with this as it is perfectly normal, also I have been checked before I go into any shopping malls in Israel.

I suggest that the Muslims get on with it and sort themselves out, they aren't doing themselves any favours by letting extremists get away with acts of terrors.

Of course the Government has clearly done its research and seen how successful the SUS laws of the late 70s were when we saw an extraordinarily disproportionate number of black people being stopped and searched. That gave Brixton a lovely warm feeling - well whilst it burned at least.

You cannot stigmatise a majority for the actions of a minority. Besides I thought modern policing was supposed to be intelligence led. Random stop and search of one section of the community doesn't sound very intelligent to me.
__________________

Originally Posted by TigaSefi

everytime I been to and from Israel's Ben Gurion's International airport, I have had my suitcase opened and inspected and this all takes about 45 mins. I am ok with this as it is perfectly normal, also I have been checked before I go into any shopping malls in Israel.

I suggest that the Muslims get on with it and sort themselves out, they aren't doing themselves any favours by letting extremists get away with acts of terrors.

This is not about airport security, this is about being stopped and searched going about your daily life. Totally different issue.

And the Islamic Council of GB and other major islamic bodies are consistent in their condemnation of terrorism. Funny how that fails to grab the headlines though.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by TigaSefi

I suggest that the Muslims get on with it and sort themselves out, they aren't doing themselves any favours by letting extremists get away with acts of terrors.

Letting them? What do you expect Muslims to do, ring Hisbollah and ask them if they wouldn't mind turning over a new leaf?

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by andyl

Of course the Government has clearly done its research and seen how successful the SUS laws of the late 70s were when we saw an extraordinarily disproportionate number of black people being stopped and searched. That gave Brixton a lovely warm feeling - well whilst it burned at least.

You cannot stigmatise a majority for the actions of a minority. Besides I thought modern policing was supposed to be intelligence led. Random stop and search of one section of the community doesn't sound very intelligent to me.

The difference between intelligence led only policing and random stop and search
1 permit knowingly as a law enforcement agency crimes to be commited while gathering intelligence.
2 Be seen actively doing something to stop crimes before or as they are commited.

Neither methods are good but a mix of the two is the only way in todays society.

[Ramrod]

from the Times:

The latest figures show a 43 per cent increase in stops and searches of white people between 2002-03 and 2003-04, 55 per cent for black people and 22 per cent for Asians.

The number of white people stopped and searched rose from 14,400 to 20,637, blacks from 1,740 to 2,704 and Asians from 2,989 to 3,668.

According to those figures, asians should be stopped/searched more otherwise the police will be guilty of discrimination

Originally Posted by Ramrod

from the Times: According to those figures, asians should be stopped/searched more otherwise the police will be guilty of discrimination

Assuming there are the same number of white, black and Asian people in the country.

EDIT: Actually I think that's not true. Numeracy not my strong point
__________________

Originally Posted by Bifta

Letting them? What do you expect Muslims to do, ring Hisbollah and ask them if they wouldn't mind turning over a new leaf?

[TigaSefi]

Originally Posted by andyl

This is not about airport security, this is about being stopped and searched going about your daily life. Totally different issue.

And the Islamic Council of GB and other major islamic bodies are consistent in their condemnation of terrorism. Funny how that fails to grab the headlines though.

Erm... I thought I said I was stopped and searched before going into shopping malls. To me that was a disruption of my "daily life"??? Don't have any problems with it though.

Originally Posted by TigaSefi

Erm... I thought I said I was stopped and searched before going into shopping malls. To me that was a disruption of my "daily life"??? Don't have any problems with it though.

In Israel.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Letting them? What do you expect Muslims to do, ring Hisbollah and ask them if they wouldn't mind turning over a new leaf?

........it would be nice if the muslim community did more to weed out the 'undesirable' elements in their community.
One of my receptionists is muslim and she says that there is still a feeling among muslims here that fellow muslims shouldn't be 'grassed'.....it appears to be a religious thing, you shouldn't betray a brother to the infidels.

[Bifta]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

........it would be nice if the muslim community did more to weed out the 'undesirable' elements in their community.
One of my receptionists is muslim and she says that there is still a feeling among muslims here that fellow muslims shouldn't be 'grassed'.....it appears to be a religious thing, you shouldn't betray a brother to the infidels.

Probably much the same as touting on the IRA, if you don't want to end up getting shot in the head, it's best to keep your mouth shut. The British of course never helped themselves with regards to Supergrasses, on occassion when they'd extracted everything of use they had a habit of letting information become publically available which eventually led to the volunteer being murdered. Some people would say that it's killing 2 birds with 1 stone but it certainly didn't encourage more people to come forward, the thought of a couple of day's worth of torture and interrogation followed by a one way trip down a back road was enough to put people off, I imagine the idea of having your head hacked off by some nutcase has the same effect

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by andyl

This is not about airport security, this is about being stopped and searched going about your daily life. Totally different issue.

I think everyones over reacting here.

Where does she say that. Has anyone taken the time to read what she is quoted on??????

She says

"The threat is most likely to come from those people associated with an extreme form of Islam, or who are falsely hiding behind Islam," she told MPs on the home affairs committee.

If a threat is from a particular place then our action is going to be targeted at that area

"It means that some of our counter-terrorism powers will be disproportionately experienced by the Muslim community."

Nowhere does she even mention "stop and search" it is the BBC hyping something up and its lazy journalism, making a story out of nothing. She says "counter terrorism powers" which covers a very wide spectrum. Phone taps, surveilance etc

She is saying the threat is from Muslim extremists therefore their resource will be disproportioninately focused on Muslims - as opposed to Roman Catholics

When the threat of terrorism comes from Extremist Muslims its no use putting phone taps on Bhuddists.

No everybody calm down.

And the Islamic Council of GB and other major islamic bodies are consistent in their condemnation of terrorism. Funny how that fails to grab the headlines though.

Two words "Lip - Service"

[me283]

Originally Posted by andyl

You cannot stigmatise a majority for the actions of a minority. Besides I thought modern policing was supposed to be intelligence led. Random stop and search of one section of the community doesn't sound very intelligent to me.

Some might say that the words "intelligence" and "police" don't belong in the same sentence!

Part of the problem here is that AFTER any kind of terrorist act fingers are always pointed and people will harp on about what could have been done to prevent it. Truth is, nobody knows for sure whether any measures would definitely work.

Personally I wouldn't have any objection to being stopped and searched as I have nothing to hide. And if it means a safer world then it's a small price to pay. As for racism, let's not overlook the fact that it's a two-way street. Many people cry "racism" before knowing the facts, just to use the "R" buzz-word. Life is by it's essence racist, in some small measure. Life is also full of civil rights and liberties being infringed. People should just get on with it, until it becomes unbearable.

This is difficult, I think the minister is being unhelpful. One assumes that terrorists will be clever and merge with the population and try not to be obvious. There is a real threat that someone and others professing islamic beliefs will at some stage succeed in committing a terrorist atrocity here. This is matter for the intelligence services and criminal investigators to deal with.

It is important though that the mainstream of the muslim community be involved in assisting the authorities in apprehending culprits. Therefore some calm and wisdom needs to be employed and the investigating authorities should be allowed to their job without politicians blabbing.

[me283]

Of course, those who claim that this is all an injustice could perhaps tell the Police etc how to spot a terrorist? What exactly does a terrorist look like? And then we must assume that the guilty person would put their hands up and say "Damn, you got me. Yes, I am a terrorist. May I have a prison cell please?". Sadly, the days of "It's a fair cop, guv" are all in the dim and distant past.