Online Banking Woes

[nffc]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

The clearing con, is the result of batch processing which still takes place for these transactions, end of day one batch file sent to BACS, day 2 BACS process all these batch files consolidate the transactions for each bank and create new files to give to the recieving bank, day 3 recieving bank recieves this file and applies it to the appropriate accounts.

yes but surely this could be done instantaneously, with the bandwidth and technological advances we have now cf when that system was introduced.

or even cut out the "middle man" and send it branch-branch direct, obviously this could be done via sort code.

AFAIK, physical cheques are no longer moved about, the location / bank / local clearing area they are deposited in retains the cheque, scans it and processes it as if it were a bacs type payment.

The conmerchants are the ones that intentionally extend these times, Abbey was one of the worst for this.

Oh right. Abbey = ****.

Still think it's a con though, they could do it an awful lot faster but don't as they make a packet out of it, imagine the amount of money transferred that will be "in limbo" for 3 days. For that, they don't have to pay interest and if it takes you out of your arranged limit, you have to pay interest.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Just about every bank charges for use of ATM's now.

I don't use ATMs you have to pay for. Those ones that have started to appear in pubs etc are expensive, if you use one of your bank's group you don't have to pay, and they do tell you afaik if you're getting charged.

Incidentally, how does this work, do they add a fixed fee / % onto the money you withdraw?

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by nffc

I don't use ATMs you have to pay for. Those ones that have started to appear in pubs etc are expensive, if you use one of your bank's group you don't have to pay, and they do tell you afaik if you're getting charged.

Incidentally, how does this work, do they add a fixed fee / % onto the money you withdraw?

Yep, we have a cash machine near my office (I'm based on a business park too far to walk anywhere else ) - I think it's run by TravelEx iirc, anyway the machine is free to use for balance queries, but as soon as you try and withdraw any cash, they charge you a flat fee of £1.50. Needless to say, I never use it to withdraw cash

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Bishop

The Principality building society takes 10 working days to clear a cheque

Thats because they don't have their own clearing houses and use time at other banks to clear cheques deposited.

Its a ll a bit of a con really, I'd have thought we'd have moved on since then but they won't until they can make money from you another way, after all the banks are so poor. How they cope with their multi-billion pound profits each year I just don't know

[Gareth]

The whole 4 business-day clearing process seems to be largely a British thing ...I don't remember having this problem when I lived and banked in France. Everything just seemed to work.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

.Just about every bank charges for use of ATM's now.

I'm not sure this is true, although my experience is a little limited. As a Barclays customer I've always had free use of ATMs operated by Lloyds/TSB, Bank of Scotland and Royal Bank of Scotland, so I've never had to look far to find a free ATM. It's also worth remembering which banks and building societies make a policy of not charging - Nationwide, for example.

I think what's created the illusion of ATMs no longer being free is that most new ones these days are being installed by finance companies that do charge for their use. This means that the oevrall percentage of free ATMs has dropped, but the reason for it is not more bank charges, just new suppliers in the market who charge.

IIRC when Barclays finally joined the Link ATM network a couple of years ago, they tried to use their muscle to introduce charging but it backfired on them so badly with negative publicity, they backed down.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by nffc

yes but surely this could be done instantaneously, with the bandwidth and technological advances we have now cf when that system was introduced.

or even cut out the "middle man" and send it branch-branch direct, obviously this could be done via sort code.

Oh right. Abbey = ****.

Still think it's a con though, they could do it an awful lot faster but don't as they make a packet out of it, imagine the amount of money transferred that will be "in limbo" for 3 days. For that, they don't have to pay interest and if it takes you out of your arranged limit, you have to pay interest.

Branch to Branch - Sort codes by branch are a throwback to when banking was done by paper and that paper really did have to travel to that branch to be entered into it's ledgers, basically nowdays (from the banks POV) you effectivly have a 14 digit account number. You can see this from the IBAN that is being printed on all bank statements now, your International Bank Account Number.

The thing is the public want instant transfer of deposits and 3 day clearing for withdrawals, if you remember when switch was first introduced they had to put an artificial 3 day delay into the process as people did not want to move from cheques as the money came out of their account faster. That seems to have dissapeared now (well HSBC/First Direct have gone 24 hr processing anyway. I remember a letter I got from them earlier this year about this and the fact that DDs and SOs could leave my account on the weekend (if that was the date they were set to go), so to ensure that funds were available (for scenarios when your pay arrives on Monday 21, but normally shows on the 20th and you have bills going out on the 20th).

Originally Posted by dellwear

Thats because they don't have their own clearing houses and use time at other banks to clear cheques deposited.

Its a ll a bit of a con really, I'd have thought we'd have moved on since then but they won't until they can make money from you another way, after all the banks are so poor. How they cope with their multi-billion pound profits each year I just don't know

But that should only add 2 days to the clearing process
Day 1 Principality to their clearer (e.g. Barclays)
Day 2 Barclays to BACS
Day 3 BACS
Day 4 Bacs to Barclays
Day 5 Barclays to Principality, not 7 days!

If Principality pulled their finger out and got their file to Barclays in time it could probably roll day 1 and 2 together also.

has to be to an account at the same branch to be instant

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by nffc

I don't use ATMs you have to pay for. Those ones that have started to appear in pubs etc are expensive, if you use one of your bank's group you don't have to pay, and they do tell you afaik if you're getting charged.

If you use ANY normal bank ATM its free, if you use a convenience one (ie in a shop, or pub) then you'll have to pay. After all your paying for the convenience of not having to go and find a bank ATM.

If there is going to be a charge (normally a flat fee) then you will be told how much it is before you receive your money, giving you the opportunity to cancel.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by gary_580

has to be to an account at the same branch to be instant

Depends on the Bank, as I commented earlier any transaction within the HSBC UK account ranges is instant.

HSBC cheque clearing of HSBC written cheques is also quicker than 3 days.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

But that should only add 2 days to the clearing process
Day 1 Principality to their clearer (e.g. Barclays)
Day 2 Barclays to BACS
Day 3 BACS
Day 4 Bacs to Barclays
Day 5 Barclays to Principality, not 7 days!

If Principality pulled their finger out and got their file to Barclays in time it could probably roll day 1 and 2 together also.

When I worked at Natwest it was explained that the building soc's rent time from the clearing houses on a rota, i.e. they get several hours every 10 days. Why they cant be put through with all the other cheques these days I couldn't tell you!

This may interest you

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by dellwear

When I worked at Natwest it was explained that the building soc's rent time from the clearing houses on a rota, i.e. they get several hours every 10 days. Why they cant be put through with all the other cheques these days I couldn't tell you!

Being as many BS are in name only as they have been taken over by the big clearers it is even less clear (sic).
These BS dropping out of the time rental system should introduce more slack anyway, additionally BACS has moved to being web based the timeslot system of a big mainframe and dial up will have disappeared (I guess).

Originally Posted by Incognitas

This may interest you

As I said above, the statistic at the top of that report is misleading. Fee charging is on the increase because most new ATMs are installed by companies that charge for their use, not because more banks are beginning to charge for use of ATMs that were previously free.

Where I agree with Nationwide's concerns is that if there are too many fee-charging ATMs, the public will get used to paying to use them, and next time Barclays or another major bank tries to muscle in with charges, they may be harder to resist.

I believe all ATM's charge in the states