NTL worse than BT

[ackees]

Telephone networks are not the same as bread, but yes if the bread leaps in price there would have to be some improvement, like a switch to organic flour for example. What do you think would happen if a bread supplier in a certain district decided to raise prices and then said †˜If you donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t like it you can go and get bread elsewhereââ‚ ¬â„¢? Especially if there was not enough competition in the bread baking industry.
The whole argument that if you donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t like it you can go to BT is exactly the issue. It is totally disgraceful to tout yourself as a †˜good alternativeâââ€Å ¡Ã‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ entice people over to your service and once they are trapped with emails, phone numbers etc all locked then offer a worse service because you well know of the difficulties of switching. Switching services back and forth as suppliers drop their services and value for money is not the answer, the answer is tight regulations that prevent companies from playing fast and loose with customers.
This had to be done with BT and it looks like we are reaching a point where companies like Ntl need tighter control on the services they provide and the prices they charge. Currently there is nothing from stopping NTL from saying "Our basic broadband service will increase in price from £17.50 to £30 and it is still better value thanâ₠¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â ‚¬ÂÂ�
From their record on dial up I am willing to bet that NTL will do something like this.
They know once they have you it is awkward for you to change, the difference between BT broadband and NTL will shrink (perhaps down to only £0.50 difference).

Originally Posted by ackees

<snip>
It is totally disgraceful to tout yourself as a †˜good alternativeââ ¡Ã‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ entice people over to your service and once they are trapped with emails, phone numbers etc all locked then offer a worse service because you well know of the difficulties of switching.
<snip>

Worse service ? - I thought the price had gone up, the service is the same, just more expensive.

Like it or not - I think you will struggle to find another unlimited dial-up for less than £12.49 a month - and if you have ntl tv as well then you are already paying for an ntl phone line so paying for a BT line as well would be plain daft.

Moaning and complaining about the rise is one thing - no one likes having to pay more - but think very carefully before changing just because if it - the phrase "cutting off you nose to spite your face" springs to mind.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by ackees

Telephone networks are not the same as bread, but yes if the bread leaps in price there would have to be some improvement, like a switch to organic flour for example. What do you think would happen if a bread supplier in a certain district decided to raise prices and then said †˜If you donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t like it you can go and get bread elsewhereââ‚ ¬â„¢? Especially if there was not enough competition in the bread baking industry.
The whole argument that if you donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t like it you can go to BT is exactly the issue. It is totally disgraceful to tout yourself as a †˜good alternativeâââ€Å ¡Ã‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ entice people over to your service and once they are trapped with emails, phone numbers etc all locked then offer a worse service because you well know of the difficulties of switching. Switching services back and forth as suppliers drop their services and value for money is not the answer, the answer is tight regulations that prevent companies from playing fast and loose with customers.
This had to be done with BT and it looks like we are reaching a point where companies like Ntl need tighter control on the services they provide and the prices they charge. Currently there is nothing from stopping NTL from saying "Our basic broadband service will increase in price from £17.50 to £30 and it is still better value thanâ₠¬Ã‚¦Ã¢â ‚¬ÂÂ�
From their record on dial up I am willing to bet that NTL will do something like this.
They know once they have you it is awkward for you to change, the difference between BT broadband and NTL will shrink (perhaps down to only £0.50 difference).

ok, but in this case it looks like the bread is already a third cheaper than alternative bread and they're putting the price up to a level still lower than BT bread.

as for being trapped with your phone number - that's not true - you should be able to port your number over to BT.

"Currently there is nothing from stopping NTL from saying "Our basic broadband service will increase in price from £17.50 to £30 and it is still better value thanâ₠¬Ã‚¦"

there is actually something stopping them from doing this - their customers would leave them.

I suspect the reason NTL have upped this price by 25% is simply the market has changed - profits are in the broadband sector.

[ackees]

The issue is wider than †œswitchingà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Ã⠀šÃ‚Â�, the issue is about cleaver and divisive practices and an abuse of services. And it is an important service . And your comments seem to be a good example of the current NTL attitude to customers, it reminds me of the old BT, in the end they were forced to change and realise that they did not have a divine right to abuse an important service to the community just because they owned some cables. Their fake protestations about being competitive were exposed.

[etccarmageddon]

have you asked them why the price has gone up by 25% - perhaps there's a reason?

have you considered cable modem or ADSL - for a few quid more per month you'll get a much better product.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by ackees

...it reminds me of the old BT, in the end they were forced to change and realise that they did not have a divine right to abuse an important service to the community just because they owned some cables. Their fake protestations about being competitive were exposed.

the difference with BT was that they inherited the infrastructure from the state and were in a dominant position. whereas the cable companies have built the infrastructure/inherited the costs of the build and because of this have massive debts.

[wheeliebin]

Originally Posted by ackees

Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s very simple. NTL send out letters saying they are going to raise prices by 25%+ and that we still have a good deal because BT is even more expensive. I do some research and find that it is not quite so simple, there are other services on the BT network that are cheaper of offer better options for dial in like no max time cut off, so I feel I am being hoodwinked by NTL. I also believe that if you raise prices you should offer a better service. The 2 hour cut out has been there for many years in fact. While prices have increased there has been no improvement of this facility.
And I am not interested in broadband, I also believe that NTL will eventually treat the broadband customers the same as the dial in customers in the end. Since NTL took over services have become steadily worse over the years.

Mate im not sure what the beef is.
You have many choices . Use one

[ackees]

We should not be fooled by arguments about markets and competition. NTL also inherited a few things and one of them is the streets and houses we live in, the potential customers they inherited are important, else you would have companies like ntl laying cables in the deserts where for a fraction of the tax they can lay as many cables as they like. We also know that markets can be cleverly manipulated and abused, total free for all are not allowed even in the most capitalist country †“ America.
I smell a rat with NTL promotions and there hike in prices and something needs to be done.

[wheeliebin]

Originally Posted by ackees

We should not be fooled by arguments about markets and competition. NTL also inherited a few things and one of them is the streets and houses we live in, the potential customers they inherited are important, else you would have companies like ntl laying cables in the deserts where for a fraction of the tax they can lay as many cables as they like. We also know that markets can be cleverly manipulated and abused, total free for all are not allowed even in the most capitalist country †“ America.
I smell a rat with NTL promotions and there hike in prices and something needs to be done.

How do you feel about the upgrade in the speeds that will be coming ?

Your making out like the little men are coming or something. Like i say mate, there are plenty of other fish in the sea. NTL will run their campaign as well as they can and hope it works. You the customer do have a choice.

[Nikko]

I am not sure if this has evolved into a 'Pro ntl' thread, or a 'spot the troll' thread - I will keep watching.

Originally Posted by Nikko

I am not sure if this has evolved into a 'Pro ntl' thread, or a 'spot the troll' thread - I will keep watching.

Funnily enough I was starting to wonder "do I also smell a rat"

[Nikko]

Originally Posted by Pem

Funnily enough I was starting to wonder "do I also smell a rat"

I suspect a waft of rodent has assaulted our collective nostrils

Nice to see even die-hard 'antis' rallying to defend a common cause tho

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by ackees

We should not be fooled by arguments about markets and competition. NTL also inherited a few things and one of them is the streets and houses we live in, the potential customers they inherited are important, else you would have companies like ntl laying cables in the deserts where for a fraction of the tax they can lay as many cables as they like. We also know that markets can be cleverly manipulated and abused, total free for all are not allowed even in the most capitalist country †“ America.
I smell a rat with NTL promotions and there hike in prices and something needs to be done.

Erm, unless I am much mistaken, when NTL bought those cable companies that did build the network, as well as the customers those cable companies built up, they also inherited the debt incurred in building the network. British Telecom (IIRC) had their debt paid off by the government before they were privatised. So, they effectively got the network (large parts of which were upgraded to their current state in the late 70s/early 80s while BT was still a nationalised company).

Anyway, I digress. NTL do have competition. In DTV, they have Sky & Freeview (which works out much cheaper if you aren't bothered about the channels it doesn't have).

For Dial up, most companies seem to require BT for unmetered access, but there may be some that support NTL. Also, some pay as you go options support NTL.

For Broadband they are competing with ADSL (which, admittedly, you need a BT line for) and Satellite (which is expensive). For phones, there are various companies (which require a BT line), BT themselves or the various mobile phone companies.

My point being that if you are in any way unhappy with your service, there are alternatives.

[ackees]

Talk of trolls etc are beside the point, I am not an enemy or a sycophantic supporter. It is dreadful practice to increase prices for improvements that have not yet been implemented.
What I have seen is customers becoming commodities, I think that some sycophantic users are completely unaware of the deep level of manipulation that some companies are capable of. NTL value for money and services have steadily got worse, now there are those who will sing their praises to the end (aka animal farm) but I think something is going wrong with Ntl, and that does not mean that I think BT etc are better (forget the switch here and switch there argument), this is about a company failing to maintain standards, standards that many people who joined originally expected but have been cleverly eroded. Ntl seem to have a policy of attracting customers with incentives but once their base reaches a critical mass reducing those services and increasing prices cleverly.
Some type of protection is needed for users or more competition on the ntl network.
I bet the broadband customers will get it in the neck next.

[threadbare]

Originally Posted by ackees

<snip>
In effect NTL can charge what they like and say things like †œwe are still 1p less than BT", but this is not true because BT lines are open to competition, if you have a BT line you can get internet services for £4.99 per month. <snip>

wot u mean like running aol over an ntl line? or wanadoo (1p min only) or gio or tesco (comming soon) or.......

my point is the ntl network is available to other isp's if they so wish.....