[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

Remain also recovering on Betfair: http://politicalodds.bet/eu-referendum

AGGGHHHH

[denphone]

Not a lot of difference since the referendum start.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by passingbat

I think one of the EU hierarchy's unstated aims of free movement of labour across the EU, is harmonisation of cultures; i.e. watering down of the individual Nation state's culture.

Cultural harmonisation makes political harmonisation easier.

Indeed, but anyone who has been to "Europe" knows, you don't need the EU to force this.

20 years ago, long before the euro, I was in Germany on the banks of where the River Rhine met the River Moselle. And it was fascinating to watch all the boats on the rivers going up and down with flags from different countries on them. You don't get that on the Thames.

Shortly after that I had trips to the border areas between Germany and France, and Holland and Belgium, and it was noticeable how harmonised things were then. At least in border areas. Everyone spoke German, French, Dutch and English and several currencies were accepted in shops and cafes.

If people want their countries to merge together that is their decision and border areas have been closely linked for many years. But
once you move away from border areas then larger cultural, architectural, language and other differences become apparent.

The EU should not force things and like uncontrolled immigration, it will have a devastating long term effect on us all.

Britain has had influence from across the water for hundreds of years and it hasn't diminished our culture so far. Look how many of our words have French roots or French words with English roots or all words with Latin roots and so on. Chips are Belgian, Tea is Chinese and the Queen descends from Germans. The blending of other cultures happened long before the EU and it's great that it did. Some of the most British things ever are things we took from elsewhere.

If it wasn't for our ability to take things from other culture and make it our own we wouldn't have fish and chips, tea or most of the stuff in the British Museum.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Horizon

Indeed, but anyone who has been to "Europe" knows, you don't need the EU to force this.

.

Yes, you don't need to force this. It happens naturally with the increasing number of migrants; a policy central to the EU. Our distinctive British culture will be diminished at a faster rate because of the EU freedom of movement. All I'm saying is that the EU hierarchy are well aware of this aspect and see it as part of the plan.

I have no problem with immigration from other countries; as pointed out, we can gain from it. but it needs to be measured and controlled by a British Government.

Brexit are not for stopping immigration but simply for having control over it.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Damien

Britain has had influence from across the water for hundreds of years and it hasn't diminished our culture so far. Look how many of our words have French roots or French words with English roots or all words with Latin roots and so on. Chips are Belgian, Tea is Chinese and the Queen descends from Germans. The blending of other cultures happened long before the EU and it's great that it did. Some of the most British things ever are things we took from elsewhere.

If it wasn't for our ability to take things from other culture and make it our own we wouldn't have fish and chips, tea or most of the stuff in the British Museum.

There's a big difference between us taking foreign things and making them our own and cultural dilution from mass immigration.

Like you, I used to believe in the blending theory as well. I don't now because its rubbish. There's no blending, just eventual replacement. Ask the Picts, Celts etc how blended they feel?

---------- Post added at 16:38 ---------- Previous post was at 16:33 ----------

Originally Posted by passingbat

Yes, you don't need to force this. It happens naturally with the increasing number of migrants; a policy central to the EU. Our distinctive British culture will be diminished at a faster rate because of the EU freedom of movement. All I'm saying is that the EU hierarchy are well aware of this aspect and see it as part of the plan.

I have no problem with immigration from other countries; as pointed out, we can gain from it. but it needs to be measured and controlled by a British Government.

Brexit are not for stopping immigration but simply for having control over it.

Actually, I disagree on your last point. I think the underlying reason why most people are voting for Brexit is to stop immigration beyond a select few whom we invite.

The EU will be long gone before it gets to a point where free movement eliminates national identity. Just wait and see what happens when the German taxpayers are told they need to bail out Greece again... which is why we need to leave the EU right now.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Horizon

Ask the Picts, Celts etc how blended they feel?

English is a foreign language brought to these islands by all the immigrant English. We are seeking reparations. Thanks for asking .

[Bircho]

Originally Posted by Damien

Britain has had influence from across the water for hundreds of years and it hasn't diminished our culture so far. Look how many of our words have French roots or French words with English roots or all words with Latin roots and so on. Chips are Belgian, Tea is Chinese and the Queen descends from Germans. The blending of other cultures happened long before the EU and it's great that it did. Some of the most British things ever are things we took from elsewhere.

If it wasn't for our ability to take things from other culture and make it our own we wouldn't have fish and chips, tea or most of the stuff in the British Museum.

I was thinking that for the last few days when the England "fans" were singing "You would all be Krauts if it wasn't for us" and "F**k off Europe we're voting out". I was thinking what a cultured nation we are.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Kursk

English is a foreign language brought to these islands by all the immigrant English. We are seeking reparations. Thanks for asking .

I'm not getting your point here. I fully understand, though, the origins of the English language.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Horizon

I'm not getting your point here. I fully understand, though, the origins of the English language.

You asked how Celts felt about immigrants.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Bircho

I was thinking that for the last few days when the England "fans" were singing "You would all be Krauts if it wasn't for us" and "F**k off Europe we're voting out". I was thinking what a cultured nation we are.

Every nation has its idiots and far worse as we know so why would you be basing you opinion of our 'nation' on a relatively few drunk idiots? Isn't that as ridiculous as basing an opinion of all Muslims on ISIS?

If we vote out I take it the minority who seem to dislike the uk will have the courage of their convictions and leave as well as lately I've seen a few on different forums who have such a low opinion of the uk and it's citizens taking any opportunity to attack the uk pretty sad.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

If we vote out I take it the minority who seem to dislike the uk will have the courage of their convictions and leave as well as lately I've seen a few on different forums who have such a low opinion of the uk and it's citizens taking any opportunity to attack the uk pretty sad.

Yes it's odd how they choose to remain in a place which is anything from workshy to racist and utterly xenophobic maybe they see it as their calling or maybe, just maybe, we're not all really as bad as their hyperbole would suggest...

If not, maybe it's liberal brainwashing designed to make them feel better by responding to what they perceive as intolerant behaviour and/or stereotyping by resorting to the very same things. We've just had someone here who reckons the small proportion of drunk idiots who were responsible for some of the trouble in Marseille are living proof that we're an uncultured nation. Bizarre eh?...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36515213

Just been reading that both of the England 'fans' convicted of causing trouble have been banned from France for 2 years. I'd be interested to know how that's going to work in the absence of border checks between Schengen nations. If there are no border checks between Schengen states, presumably people like these guys would be free to fly to any neighbouring EU country and then just cross the border into France unchecked.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

If we vote out I take it the minority who seem to dislike the uk will have the courage of their convictions and leave as well as lately I've seen a few on different forums who have such a low opinion of the uk and it's citizens taking any opportunity to attack the uk pretty sad.

well there are those who think we are incapable of surviving outside of the EU .i imagine they will pack their bags and go live with their comrades over the water no point in them staying here if we are doomed .

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

Yes it's odd how they choose to remain in a place which is anything from workshy to racist and utterly xenophobic.

I think it's liberal brainwashing designed to make them feel better by responding to what they perceive as intolerant behaviour and/or stereotyping by resorting to the very same things. We've just had someone here who reckons the small proportion of drunk idiots who were responsible for some of the trouble in Marseille are living proof that we're an uncultured nation. Bizarre eh?...

lets wait till after the England Wales punch u er match before we get too high up in the saddle

Leave beginning to run away with it: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...lls?CMP=twt_gu