Saddam Hussein Executed

[Virgin Mary]

Originally Posted by Gavin

I beg to differ mate. The court was Iraqi, the judge was Iraqi, the person who signed his death warrant was Iraqi, the witnesses were Iraqi, and it was held outside the green zone, in a (presumably) Iraqi-controlled area.

Even the commander of the US forces is an Arab...they Iraqis should be thankful, one of their own commands the almighty army that screws them

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Pia

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,240117,00.html

A man whose testimony helped lead to Saddam's conviction and execution before sunrise said he was shown the body because "everybody wanted to make sure that he was really executed."

"Now, he is in the garbage of history," said Jawad Abdul-Aziz, who lost his father, three brothers and 22 cousins in the reprisal killings that followed a botched 1982 assassination attempt against Saddam in the Shiite town of Dujail.

[jtwn]

I'd just like to know why the Foreign Secretary is seemingly fine to acknowledge the process of somebody who has been lawfully killed by a state, when this country has a firm policy against capital punishment?

[punky]

Presumably because he wasn't tried and punished in this country.

Even if the criminal was a British citizen then

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I certainly don't think bad of him for being glad he is dead, if there is anything good that comes out of execution it is that perhaps the victims may find a form of closure

[budwieser]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

A Shiite country. A mate of mine is over there at the moment with the Marines. Glad the ****ers dead to be honest and it`s called Retribution.
What goes around, comes around.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by jtwn

I'd just like to know why the Foreign Secretary is seemingly fine to acknowledge the process of somebody who has been lawfully killed by a state, when this country has a firm policy against capital punishment?

Both Bush and Blair are distancing themselves from the execution in an attempt to make this appear to be a strictly Iraqi affair. After all, the deposing and bringing to justice of Hussein was supposedly one of the key motives for the invasion of Iraq (along with other things). Now they have achieved and facilitated that aim they are keen to get out of Iraq asap. The problem, of course, being that they appear to have no clue whatsoever how to do so. They have created a monster and it remains to be seen how, if at all, they can get the lid back on Pandoras box.

Saddam deserved to be punished for his crimes - of that there is no doubt. Perhaps (a particularly public) death wasn't the smartest move to reflect a new democracy but the means justified the end. Let's not delude ourselves into believing this is some sort of manifestation of impartial democracy - it's anything but.

Two prime fact(or)s are that the trial judge was a Kurd who had lost relatives in the incident for which Hussein was found guilty, hardly a stoic basis for impartiality. Al-Maliki lived in exile for many years under a death threat courtesy of Hussein - again hardly a sound basis to suggest impartiality.

Either way he is dead but the suicide bombings and all the other madness still remain. It will be interesting to see if the trial for the gassing of the Kurds proceeds (conveniently without his damning testimony - obviously).

I'm a great believer in, and advocate of, civilized democracy but there's something telling in Russ's earlier post regarding the posting of links to any video footage of the actual hanging. With true democracy comes responsibility. If true Iraqi democracy entails the public broadcasting of an execution (of anybody) then, frankly, it's a democracy I can do without supporting.

My thoughts are with the widows, fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters of the servicemen and women who have lost their lives in exchange for a 30 second clip of morbid sensationalism being streamed around the world. I'm sure it's no comfort, whatsoever, for them - particularly at this time of year.

As granny Angry would often say "Two wrongs don't make spilt milk" - or something.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

My thoughts are with the widows, fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters of the servicemen and women who have lost their lives in exchange for a 30 second clip of morbid sensationalism being streamed around the world.

Cool, they'll all be back tomorrow then won't they?
Oh wait, you're wrong again and trivialising their deaths, nice.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Cool, they'll all be back tomorrow then won't they?
Oh wait, you're wrong again and trivialising their deaths, nice.

I am entitled to direct my sentiments to whomsoever I please. You, however, are not entitled to belittle those sentiments and I'd thank you to keep your snide remarks for your own, bizarre, amusement.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Cool, they'll all be back tomorrow then won't they?
Oh wait, you're wrong again and trivialising their deaths, nice.

I dont think Mr Angry is trivalising their deaths at all. Most peopel would agree that now that this war/invasion was primarily about regime change, and getting rid of Saddam.

If anyone has trivalised the deaths of service men and women then it is the governments of this country and the US for sending them to war under false pretenses.

The fact that they're still there in my opinion is that they've made such a cock up of the whole thing that they(Bush & Blair) need to stay to save face.

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:44 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Both Bush and Blair are distancing themselves from the execution in an attempt to make this appear to be a strictly Iraqi affair. After all, the deposing and bringing to justice of Hussein was supposedly one of the key motives for the invasion of Iraq (along with other things). Now they have achieved and facilitated that aim they are keen to get out of Iraq asap. The problem, of course, being that they appear to have no clue whatsoever how to do so. They have created a monster and it remains to be seen how, if at all, they can get the lid back on Pandoras box.

Saddam deserved to be punished for his crimes - of that there is no doubt. Perhaps (a particularly public) death wasn't the smartest move to reflect a new democracy but the means justified the end. Let's not delude ourselves into believing this is some sort of manifestation of impartial democracy - it's anything but.

Two prime fact(or)s are that the trial judge was a Kurd who had lost relatives in the incident for which Hussein was found guilty, hardly a stoic basis for impartiality. Al-Maliki lived in exile for many years under a death threat courtesy of Hussein - again hardly a sound basis to suggest impartiality.

Either way he is dead but the suicide bombings and all the other madness still remain. It will be interesting to see if the trial for the gassing of the Kurds proceeds (conveniently without his damning testimony - obviously).

I'm a great believer in, and advocate of, civilized democracy but there's something telling in Russ's earlier post regarding the posting of links to any video footage of the actual hanging. With true democracy comes responsibility. If true Iraqi democracy entails the public broadcasting of an execution (of anybody) then, frankly, it's a democracy I can do without supporting.

My thoughts are with the widows, fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters of the servicemen and women who have lost their lives in exchange for a 30 second clip of morbid sensationalism being streamed around the world. I'm sure it's no comfort, whatsoever, for them - particularly at this time of year.

As granny Angry would often say "Two wrongs don't make spilt milk" - or something.

i'd rep you but i need to spread my love around first. Who wants a cuddle then?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

My thoughts are with the widows, fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters of the servicemen and women who have lost their lives in exchange for a 30 second clip of morbid sensationalism being streamed around the world. I'm sure it's no comfort, whatsoever, for them - particularly at this time of year.

But those deaths have nothng to do with a 30 sec clip
You may as well infer a link between the increase intelevision viewing and the decline in slavery......

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

If anyone has trivalised the deaths of service men and women then it is the governments of this country and the US for sending them to war under false pretenses.

The fact that they're still there in my opinion is that they've made such a cock up of the whole thing that they(Bush & Blair) need to stay to save face.

So, bearing in mind what Saddam was doing to large sections of the population, that the provisional government in Iraq does not currently (AFAIK) have enough resources or infrastructure to be able to run the country (and, as has been proved this week, cannot neccesarily trust the infrastructure they do have), and without help, the government is likely to collapse leading to anarchy (although that seems to be a good description of what is going on anyway), what do you suggest we do?

The Iraqis are suffering at the moment. I suspect if we left, that suffering would be a lot worse.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

But those deaths have nothng to do with a 30 sec clip
You may as well infer a link between the increase intelevision viewing and the decline in slavery......

Indeed.
Suggesting that their deaths was to get a 30 second clip certainly trivialises the loss of life on all sides.

[punky]

I don't think Iraq can be helped. By far the most common form of violence there is Iraqi-on-Iraqi, usually Sunni-on-shiite.

It took something like Saddam's regime to suppress the public sufficiently. That obviously can't be repeated. The only people that can stop that are themselves. The decreasing majority of peaceful, exasperated Iraqis that need to stand up against the increasing majority that want to kill over a 1,300 year old grudge and/or oil/territory rights.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

But those deaths have nothng to do with a 30 sec clip

I'm speaking from a personal perspective which I know I am not alone in holding.

Here is a quote from Tony Blair's address to the UK population on Thursday March 20th 2003.

"On Tuesday night I gave the order for British forces to take part in military action in Iraq. Tonight British servicemen and women are engaged from air, land and sea. Their mission: to remove Saddam Hussein from power, and disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction."

Notwithstanding the total lack of WMDs being discovered Hussein was effectively removed from power on April 10th 2003. He was then captured on December 13th 2003.

Servicemen and women who have died post December 13th, when Hussein was remanded into American custody, have died in circumstances entirely beyond the remit of the stated objective with which they were charged.

The execution of Hussein was the final chapter in his total removal from power and elimination as a threat to anyone. The broadcast of his execution is "job done" as far as his adversaries are concerned.

Anyone who has lost colleagues and friends in this conflict will tell you that they'd much rather have them back than sit and watch constant Sky News re-runs of some despot dictator dangling off the end of a rope no matter how much that might ease the consciences of those who advocated what has become the most farcical, expensive (in human and fiscal terms) and ill prosecuted regime change exercise in modern history .

Gavin is entirely right - Iraq, in it's current state, cannot be helped.