Why Does Everyone Think Virgin Are Rubbish ?

[Ignitionnet]

I think the whole point is turning advertising on its' head. Just as advertising shows the one extreme of whatever product it's advertising so you can turn it on its' head. VM portray their network as being purely fibre optic in the advertisements and broadband delivered over copper as being a bad thing. The advertisements are saying exactly that there's no fibre in the network, they discuss fibre optic broadband, say about how bad broadband delivered over copper is, and draw differentials between Virgin and DSL because Virgin use fibre optics.

[Downloads]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

I think the whole point is turning advertising on its' head. Just as advertising shows the one extreme of whatever product it's advertising so you can turn it on its' head. VM portray their network as being purely fibre optic in the advertisements and broadband delivered over copper as being a bad thing. The advertisements are saying exactly that there's no fibre in the network, they discuss fibre optic broadband, say about how bad broadband delivered over copper is, and draw differentials between Virgin and DSL because Virgin use fibre optics.

If you can show me where VM portray their network as being entirely fibre based then I will bow to your superior knowledge.

One could say they are simply portraying their network as faster as it isn't entirely made up of copper.

The reality is when advertising you don't make an advert 4 pages long to cover all the details, you just make some sweeping statements.

I think some people should just get over it, if VM works for you then great, they aren't perfect though, if they don't work for you then leave and that should apply to all but the few who have no option. Moaning on here for year on end isn't the way to go, surely people can find something more positive to do with their time, like post in a different section where they won't moan as much. I sure as hell know it's depressing enough to read and excruciatingly boring to see the same people year after year churn out the same negativity.

[Ignitionnet]

Find me one of VM's ads for fibre optic broadband where they mention that their network also contains copper. The ads are very clear with their assertion, the 'fibre optic broadband' in huge letters is pretty unequivocal and would be taken by any reader who wasn't aware of the structure of VM's network to indicate that their network is fully fibre as has been demonstrated by posts on this and other forums regarding fibre optic broadband.

EDIT: Case in point http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...-worth-it.html - OP thought network was fully fibre optic and not aware the network was 'just cable'.

Not going to address your other stuff as this forum is very typical of every other online forum devoted to a provider of services in any industry and the solution to any depression you might have from reading it is simply not to. To borrow your turn of phrase if this forum doesn't work for you there are other things to read on the web. People are entitled to their opinions and entitled to express them on here within the rules and decisions of the moderators on the site

For a history lesson go back in time to nthellworld. If you think this forum is negative be glad you weren't around when that one ran. Do you actually know why it was born, and in turn I guess this site evolved? Frank having issues with online gaming due to bad pings being delivered on his cable.

[Downloads]

I'm not sure you even read what i said.

They WON'T in an advert say that x% is made up of fibre and x% is made up of copper, that would be a really crap advert. They call it a fibre optic network which given the vast length of fibre compared to copper is absolutely fair enough.

Calling something a fibre optic network doesn't mean that it has to be 100% fibre to the home. I'm an analyst and from my experience companies make statements all the time that are sweeping. You don't have to qualify every statement you make in life.

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:38 ----------

I don't need a history lesson on this site believe me. People use to complain a lot on their own issues more, there's just a hardcore of disgruntled people now who just post for the sake of it, one person here i remember arguing with a year ago and seems to just have been doing the same moaning for the last year.

[Ignitionnet]

So it's a sweeping statement, and as it's a sweeping statement about 'fibre optic broadband' it implies 100% fibre optics, thanks for that

I didn't say you had to qualify every statement, merely that the adverts give the impression of 100% fibre optics. It's your opinion that it doesn't have to be 100% fibre to the home, the actual decision by the ASA was centred around both proportion of fibre to copper and the quality of the copper in question.

What this means to Joe Average is of course nothing. Advertising fibre optic broadband means to Joe Average that it's fibre all the way as they know nothing about the actual construction of the network, Hybrid Fibre-Coax.

I'll keep my opinion of analysts, especially in IT, to myself having had to clean up plenty of their messes for a fraction of the cash in the past

[Downloads]

Thats fine, and i will keep my opinion of you to myself.

I'm sure i've cleaned up plenty of messes that people like you make too.

You are quite incorrect and no need to say thanks, it doesn't imply it's 100% fibre, it implies they use fibre, which they do.

---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------

Adverts have always said things like... "This is the best chocolate in the world". They don't have to say "86.5% of people think this is the best chocolate in the world". The customer always have to make up their own mind and do their own research if needs be. It won't stop companies making grand statements, people, get over it. Its up to the regulators to decide what companies can and can't say and thn when it's all said and done they will just push the boundaries next time.

[Ignitionnet]

Purely your opinion and I'd welcome an example of a view from someone besides yourself who thinks it doesn't imply 100% fibre, I've yet to see one.

EDIT: Even Virgin admitted it implied as such and justified the ad based on the active nature of the network and the quality of the coaxial component. The fibre optic claim was based around the network being amplified and resilient to interference, that it implied the network was entirely fibre optic was not contested.

[Downloads]

Said it did imply or said that it could imply? You can imply lots of things and you can make assumptions too. Like i said previously it's up to the customers not to blindly believe anything in life and find out for themselves. VM will just continueto make their product sound as good as they can.

I'm not sure it requires moaning about, although it is peoples right of course to be complainers, oodles of companies have hidden 100% fact in statements and will continue to do so for years. It's just a chess game between companies. The consumer shouldn't care too much as long as they are getting something like what they should be getting.

Mr Consumer to VM: You told me that i would be getting 20mb broadband and i am thank you very much. However i am in distress because when i saw an advert i assumed the network was 100% made of fibre and this is not the case.

Me thinks not.

Let the regulators worry about the adverts and where the truth lies and what can and can't be said. Like i said before, not sure it requires having a good old moan about.

[Ignitionnet]

OK so it's changed from 'does not imply' in http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34629270-post261.html to saying that it 'could imply', punters won't be worrying, let the regulators worry about it and it doesn't require having a moan about.

Nothing more to say and glad you agree the ad is potentially misleading even if you don't consider it merits having a moan about - some people do.

I don't care that much, however I know the ASA adjudication well as I was one of the members of the public who complained to the ASA about it as I have done other misleading adverts about broadband, it being what I know and what I do and I dislike seeing the public, including me, ripped off on the basis of dubious ads

[Downloads]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

OK so it's changed from 'does not imply' in http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34629270-post261.html to saying that it 'could imply', punters won't be worrying, let the regulators worry about it and it doesn't require having a moan about.

Nothing more to say and glad you agree the ad is potentially misleading even if you don't consider it merits having a moan about - some people do.

I don't care that much, however I know the ASA adjudication well as I was one of the members of the public who complained to the ASA about it as I have done other misleading adverts about broadband, it being what I know and what I do and I dislike seeing the public, including me, ripped off on the basis of dubious ads

It doesn't surprise me you complained about it at all

How are the public being ripped off on the basis of this advert though?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Downloads

It doesn't surprise me you complained about it at all

How are the public being ripped off on the basis of this advert though?

It's misleading. This advert specifically doesn't rip people off but it's one of a long line of misleading adverts relating to broadband services, just one of many sadly. Tiscali's 'unlimited' broadband ads got the same treatment from me, nothing personal against VM

[Downloads]

Thats cool, as long as it's nothing personal against VM lol I've told them to sod off before complained and moaned about specific issues.

My main beef is with one particular person who does have something personal against them, i just wish they would leave, cos being a positive person generally having to see the negativity on multiple threads when all you want to do is chat about the services and see balanced opinion is painful.

I left for a year and i think this is my call to leave for another one lol

[Ignitionnet]

Nah I don't get personal at companies, quite the opposite in VM's case I'd welcome them delivering fully on the massive potential and promise they have

Originally Posted by Downloads

I'm not sure you even read what i said.

They WON'T in an advert say that x% is made up of fibre and x% is made up of copper, that would be a really crap advert. They call it a fibre optic network which given the vast length of fibre compared to copper is absolutely fair enough.

Calling something a fibre optic network doesn't mean that it has to be 100% fibre to the home. I'm an analyst and from my experience companies make statements all the time that are sweeping. You don't have to qualify every statement you make in life.

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:38 ----------

I don't need a history lesson on this site believe me. People use to complain a lot on their own issues more, there's just a hardcore of disgruntled people now who just post for the sake of it, one person here i remember arguing with a year ago and seems to just have been doing the same moaning for the last year.

Dont try to defend the indefensible Downloads.
You know aswell as me, or maybe you do not want to see it, that VM paint copper wire to be an evil incarnate.
" Broadband speeds on our Broadband is faster because we use Fibre optics, Broadband speeds slow down on other providers ( BT ) because they use copper in their network which is old and used for telephone lines "

So dont tell me that I should swallow the crap that VM peddle.
That is the end of my bit on the subject, VM will not say that they use copper on their network because that would defeat the BS they peddle.
Gladly most people know the truth.

---------- Post added at 07:29 ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 ----------

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Nah I don't get personal at companies, quite the opposite in VM's case I'd welcome them delivering fully on the massive potential and promise they have

Indeed, they are so full of hot air about what they will do, when all the time they are like a school report, must do better.

---------- Post added at 07:44 ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Downloads

Thats cool, as long as it's nothing personal against VM lol I've told them to sod off before complained and moaned about specific issues.

My main beef is with one particular person who does have something personal against them, i just wish they would leave, cos being a positive person generally having to see the negativity on multiple threads when all you want to do is chat about the services and see balanced opinion is painful.

I left for a year and i think this is my call to leave for another one lol

I think if you read through the boards on here you will see a balanced scheme.
Sadly the forum doesnt have the " Positive only feedback " Button.
I will give you if I can a balanced opinion of VM in my own experience, because that is all I can do, its pointless critisising something if you have had no experience of the product, so here we go.
When I first joined NTL as it was I had the full package.
Telephone, Broadband and Television.
First to go was Television, because basically the box was a useless box of tricks that promised so much but did not deliver, despite numerous calls to overstretched cs at then NTL.
Then they tried to charge me almost £200 for telephone calls I did not make, these calls were apparently made between 2 and 3 in the morning when we were all in bed, because that particular week I had to be up at 4.30 for work.
Despite trying to convince them that the calls were not physiclly made by anyone in the house they insisted on the charge at first, then upon appeal cancelled them, but the experience was enough so I cancelled the telephone service and went to BT, strangely there have been no instances of this early hours pattern of alleged telephone calls.
So I am left with one product from them which I cannot really fault, I rarely get the full speed I pay for but it does the job I need.
If I was a big online gamer I might have issues, but generally its ok.
I have attempted to give a balanced opinion but that is hardly balanced is it? because of the three products I had with them I now only have one, I had major issues with two of the products, but I tried a balanced opinion.
Believe it or not Downloads I am a positive person, but there are times when VM stretch things to the limit.
VM waste millions of subscribers money every year trying to paint a picture of their services that is the proverbial leonardo, sadly a lot of the time the paint is still wet!

Originally Posted by Downloads

Thats cool, as long as it's nothing personal against VM lol I've told them to sod off before complained and moaned about specific issues.

My main beef is with one particular person who does have something personal against them, i just wish they would leave, cos being a positive person generally having to see the negativity on multiple threads when all you want to do is chat about the services and see balanced opinion is painful.

I left for a year and i think this is my call to leave for another one lol

This is a Forum where people air their views, problems and gripes about Virgin, if you do not like that sort of thing why did you join a Forum of this type and not a adoration of Virgin Forum.

I am employed by Virgin, but I have been a customer for 14 years through all it previous incarnations, and I have genuinely never had a major problem with them and I have all 3 services.

Any fault I have had which has only ever been TV related has been dealt with quickly and efficiently with the minimum off fuss.

I did try SKY about 10 years ago but after 3 months of the Sky box phantom calling and having 3 replacement Sky boxes in this period plus a ridiculously long callout delay for Sky engineers we cancelled our contract as SKY broke the terms of our agreement by being unable to provide a service.