[Merged] - The Road Traffic Act (inc Speeding)

[ian@huth]

On reflection you should have given them your mobile phone and asked them to do a 1471 to see when the phone was last called and told them you would send them a copy of your next phone bill to show you hadn't called anyone at the time of the incident. This wouldn't have conclusively proved that you weren't trying to call someone but it may have given them enough doubt to not bother prosecuting.

[me283]

Originally Posted by gazzae

Maybe they genuinely thought you were using a mobile phone. I don't know anyone who drives with their head resting in their hand so I assume it would be easy to think you were using a phone.

I imagine with phones being small these days they would be difficult to see in police video.

Of course that doesn't excuse them for being rude.

If you go to court and explain that you have a handsfree kit and weren't using your phone then you may get off with that, but you may well be fined for driving without due care or something for having your head in your hand.

Exactly! They even threatened to confiscate my phone and have it checked for usage at that time! And as you say, if they can't prove one offence they'll get me for another.

As the inspector pointed out, behaviour like that does nothing to enhance the relationship between Police and public.

By the way, the leaning thing is just a habit, using the door as a kind og high-up armrest. I'm over 6ft and it just feels comfy. I see taxi drivers doing it in London all the time. In hindsight it may have looked like me using a phone, but that doesn't excuse the threat of two police officers swearing they saw something that didn't happen.
__________________

Originally Posted by ian@huth

On reflection you should have given them your mobile phone and asked them to do a 1471 to see when the phone was last called and told them you would send them a copy of your next phone bill to show you hadn't called anyone at the time of the incident. This wouldn't have conclusively proved that you weren't trying to call someone but it may have given them enough doubt to not bother prosecuting.

You are right, but these days I don't even have faith in conclusive proof! It's just an example where SOME police do persecute the motorist, or at least appear to. A gentle word would have resolved it, no harm done, let's be on our way. But the action they took was a little strong, in my opinion, taking all factors and circumstances into account.

[ian@huth]

I have probably mentioned it before about my one and only speeding conviction . I was driving a Mercedes up the M606 from its junction with the M62. There was a temporary national speed limit of 50 mph due to the effects of the Arab Israeli war. I was in the centre lane doing just under 50 mph whilst the nearside lane had several heavy lorries going rather slower because of the gradient. I know the speed I was doing because I checked it when I saw a police road traffic car coming along the sliproad between the M62 and M606. The police car sped up behind me and put on his blues. I pulled onto the hard shoulder and was asked by one of the two police officers how fast I was going. I told him 48 mph. He said that they had clocked me at 68 mph. Talking it over with several friends in the police force and a solicitor friend they all gave the same advice. Plead guilty and pay the fine, you won't get away with the charge and might end up having to pay more.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by gazzae

Maybe they genuinely thought you were using a mobile phone. I don't know anyone who drives with their head resting in their hand so I assume it would be easy to think you were using a phone.

I imagine with phones being small these days they would be difficult to see in police video.

Of course that doesn't excuse them for being rude.

If you go to court and explain that you have a handsfree kit and weren't using your phone then you may get off with that, but you may well be fined for driving without due care or something for having your head in your hand.

Driving with only one hand on the wheel is not an offence.
Swerving around or doing it in conditions where it could be dangerous (such as on an icy road) however I believe will have you up for driving without due care and attention.

me283, any correspondance, use recorded delivery, contact your mobile operator and get a copy of your bill for that day to show that you were not making any calls and send it to them, tell them you are certain that your mobile operator will be more than happy to supply evidence that your phone was not in use at the time.
If it does get passed to the court and you recieve the forms, plead not guilty and enter in all the evidence such as the fact you have a bluetooth hands free kit, the itemised phone bill, and that they can contact your operator to find out if the phone was in use.
Also seek legal advice.

It could be that because you kicked up a fuss over the speeding ticket, this WPC has got wind of it, and spotted your number plate and took advantage (although that is a small posibility)

[me283]

Xaccers, thanks for the advice. I have a copy of the itemised bill which shows the last call to have been about 10 minutes before (I had only just started driving). So far they haven't contacted me and it happened in October, so I wait with anticipation.

I wondered if it is down to the car that I drive - an Audi TT. I was told by someone that proportionally these sre the most ticketed cars on the road! Maybe I'll trade it in for a Skoda...
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Originally Posted by Xaccers

Driving with only one hand on the wheel is not an offence.
Swerving around or doing it in conditions where it could be dangerous (such as on an icy road) however I believe will have you up for driving without due care and attention.

me283, any correspondance, use recorded delivery, contact your mobile operator and get a copy of your bill for that day to show that you were not making any calls and send it to them, tell them you are certain that your mobile operator will be more than happy to supply evidence that your phone was not in use at the time.
If it does get passed to the court and you recieve the forms, plead not guilty and enter in all the evidence such as the fact you have a bluetooth hands free kit, the itemised phone bill, and that they can contact your operator to find out if the phone was in use.
Also seek legal advice.

It could be that because you kicked up a fuss over the speeding ticket, this WPC has got wind of it, and spotted your number plate and took advantage (although that is a small posibility)

__________________

Originally Posted by Xaccers

It could be that because you kicked up a fuss over the speeding ticket, this WPC has got wind of it, and spotted your number plate and took advantage (although that is a small posibility)

It also transpired that I was not the only person who had complained about this particular WPC, and she was put forwarded for specific advice/training in relation to the way she dealt with members of the public. I think it pays to take these matters further when you have been wronged by and public or civil servants.

What has this to do with Speeding ?

[me283]

Originally Posted by Paul M

What has this to do with Speeding ?

Actually Paul, one of the often mentioned points relates to the deployment of Police officers and the feeling by some motorists that they are persecuted; this is a tangential continuation of that. It also a thread pertaining to the RoadTraffic Act, under which it appears all motoring offences come.

Ah, I didn't know Russ had merged this with the RTA topic as the title referred to Speeding only. Title updated.

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Driving with only one hand on the wheel is not an offence.
Swerving around or doing it in conditions where it could be dangerous (such as on an icy road) however I believe will have you up for driving without due care and attention.

me283, any correspondance, use recorded delivery, contact your mobile operator and get a copy of your bill for that day to show that you were not making any calls and send it to them, tell them you are certain that your mobile operator will be more than happy to supply evidence that your phone was not in use at the time.
If it does get passed to the court and you recieve the forms, plead not guilty and enter in all the evidence such as the fact you have a bluetooth hands free kit, the itemised phone bill, and that they can contact your operator to find out if the phone was in use.
Also seek legal advice.

It could be that because you kicked up a fuss over the speeding ticket, this WPC has got wind of it, and spotted your number plate and took advantage (although that is a small posibility)

Top advice as ever.

But my main worry here would be the broader picture.

By proving that it does nothing to prove that the phone as far as they are concerned belonged to the driver.

They would dispute this proves nothing other than the person concerned not using their own phone at the time.

But if they have evidence against this then it will not help.

[me283]

Originally Posted by carlingman

Top advice as ever.

But my main worry here would be the broader picture.

By proving that it does nothing to prove that the phone as far as they are concerned belonged to the driver.

They would dispute this proves nothing other than the person concerned not using their own phone at the time.

But if they have evidence against this then it will not help.

And of course the implications are quite frightening. The idea of "don't bother arguing, it's two against one". If the guy in McDonalds has a bad day he gives you less chips or burns the burgers; if the postman has a bad day he may mis-deliver some letter; if a WPC has a bad day you can end up with points and fines... and it seems there's not much that can be done about it.

[Stuart]

Not really related to speeding as such, more towards council's attitudes to motorists.

1) We are actually quite lucky where I live, there are not an awful lot of Gatsos. In fact I know of three - two on roads that are on the way to schools, and one notorious accident blackspot (there is one dual carriageway near us and there was at least one fatal accident a week on it as the average speed always seemed over 80 and the road bends suddenly). The local police (or whoever decides these things) seems to prefer using the speed warning signs (the ones that flash up your speed). I actually prefer this method if enforcement.


2) Our council does not entirely think clearly about road safety though. There is a very shallow bend in the main road that mine leads into, so people do tend to take it quite fast. The council have recently erected a lighted poster reminding people to drive carefully. Where have they placed it? In the one area where it blocks the view of oncoming traffic from both directions. What's even worse is that the local chavs have nicked the posters from each side of the board, so all the drivers can see at night is bright white flourescent lighting.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by carlingman

Top advice as ever.

But my main worry here would be the broader picture.

By proving that it does nothing to prove that the phone as far as they are concerned belonged to the driver.

They would dispute this proves nothing other than the person concerned not using their own phone at the time.

But if they have evidence against this then it will not help.

Ask the police to produce evidence that a phone was in use from that vehicle.
Request the police produce said phone.
Innocent until proven guilty and all that

My opinions well known so a bit of light relief:

Before you look at the pic.......


Tired of speeding tickets?

Want to open up spaces between you and the cars around you?

Step 1. Tie these balloons to your car

Step 2. Drive VERY FAST

Step 3. Watch people freak out.

Step 4. Tell the nice officer you thought they were real.







But remember speeding is bad and don't ehinge if you get caught

[me283]

Originally Posted by andyl

My opinions well known so a bit of light relief:

Before you look at the pic.......


Tired of speeding tickets?

Want to open up spaces between you and the cars around you?

Step 1. Tie these balloons to your car

Step 2. Drive VERY FAST

Step 3. Watch people freak out.

Step 4. Tell the nice officer you thought they were real.







But remember speeding is bad and don't ehinge if you get caught

Nice one Andy

Now they're going to ban detectors: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4333671.stm

But apparently NOT the ones that use GPS to alert of fixed cameras.

Now they argue that the detectors allow drivers to know when they can or cannot speed. I would have thought the ones for fixed cameras have the same effect.

Sounds to me more like they know that the 'mobile' cameras, which are not subject to the visibility guidelines, make such good money they wouldn't want us to find a way around them.

The only reason why the police are so keen to have ever more powers to tackle speeding etc. is because it's one 'crime' where the perpetrators have actually been forced to show their 'id' before they commit the crime. So nice, simply, uncomplicated policing. Just about what woodentops can handle.