[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU - Page 16

Sirius · 10-11-2015, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Well they wouldn't be able to move before hand unless we suddenly introduced a new member before the referendum which isn't going to happen. Maybe the benefits but it could probably be applied to existing claimants rather than only apply to those who arrived after the introduction of the changes.

It does seem the substance of the changes he wants will amount to the rules over freedom of movement though.

Anything he says he has won concessions on needs to be set in stone legally and applied before the referendum or the EU could just do a Cameron straight after the vote and lie as to why they now cannot do it.

I am voting NO not matter what the lying git says he got from the fat cats in Brussels

Osem · 10-11-2015, 18:08

I too would find it hard to trust what 'they' say about any concessions unless these were signed sealed and delivered before the vote. If not I can see them coming back sometime after a vote to stay in and moving the goalposts to suit them yet again.

Osem · 12-11-2015, 21:44

Quote:

Reaching a deal on David Cameron's EU renegotiation goals will be "very, very tough", European Council President Donald Tusk has said.

In his first comment since the UK prime minister wrote to him setting out his objectives, Mr Tusk said there was "no guarantee" of a deal by December.

"I have to say that it will be really difficult to find an agreement," added the European Council president.

Talks and sounding out other countries will start next week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34803222

Since when was anything EU easy or simple and what sort of negotiator would say anything else?

I hope it is tough and that their intransigence, dogma and illogic is made even more plain for people to see - hopefully enough people to ensure we leave the ship before we sink with it and for others to follow.

Maybe then we can have the common market many of us wanted and envisaged instead of a false union of uneasy and unequal 'partners' dominated by Germany.

**Chris** · 13-11-2015, 12:30

Leave leads Remain by 53-47, excluding undecided, in latest Survation poll.

http://order-order.com/2015/11/13/le...ead-of-remain/

(In full, it's 43% Leave, 38% Remain, 19% undecided)

Osem · 07-12-2015, 20:27

Quote:

There are "substantial political differences" over the PM's demands for welfare curbs for EU migrants, the European Council president says.

Donald Tusk said there was "presently no consensus" within the EU about David Cameron's desire to restrict in-work payments for four years.

Mr Tusk has written to EU leaders warning that uncertainty over the UK's future in the EU was "destabilising".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35025160

The more I hear of their patronising guff, the more I want to leave. These people make FIFA look like a well run organisation. The longer this goes on, the more I wonder why anyone on the UK would seriously want to remain a part of the madness. Can doing our own thing really be worse than being run by a bunch of blinkered Eurocrats who make inept local authority empire builders look good?

heero_yuy · 11-12-2015, 09:21

Quote:

DAVID Cameron’s stalled EU talks suffered another blow as Poland’s leader said they do not see “eye to eye” over his planned benefit cuts.

Mr Cameron failed to get Beata Szydlo to agree to halt access to handouts for new arrivals for four years as they held an overnight meeting in capital Warsaw.

The issue is Mr Cameron’s key immigration demand.

Persuading the EU’s eastern states, whose hundreds of thousands of workers in the UK receive the benefits, is crucial to any hope of success.

But Polish Foreign Minister Witold Waszczykowski said: “If Mr Cameron wants to separate different categories according to the country they come from, he will violate the EU principle of the free movement of people.”

Mr Cameron’s problems mounted when Brussels diplomats also claimed Britain was totally isolated on the benefits demand last night, with all 27 other EU states now opposing it.

The bitter blow sends him back to the drawing board on the biggest issue for voters ahead of next week’s EU leaders’ summit on the UK’s membership.

Last week he delayed any hopes of a new settlement until February next year at the earliest, also pushing back his promised in-out referendum.

Linky

This what happens when you play a winning hand ( £11 billion net) badly. He didn't ask for enough and got even less.

Everybody knows in a hard bargaining situation that you demand the moon to get a piece of the cheese.

The clamour to leave can only get louder.

Osem · 11-12-2015, 09:32

It's inevitable with so many conflicting interests and political intransigence at work within the EU. I can't see the UK gaining any significant concessions anytime soon or any likelihood of common sense breaking out in Europe so my vote will be to leave. The lesser of two evils, sadly.

Gary L · 11-12-2015, 18:36

Looks like Dave's resignation and handover to the Catatonic George is just around the corner.

heero_yuy · 11-12-2015, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Looks like Dave's resignation and handover to the Catatonic George is just around the corner.

Unless Boris seizes his chance.

Gary L · 11-12-2015, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Unless Boris seizes his chance.

Can you imagine if Boris was the UK's 'ruler' and Trump was the USA's 'ruler'

the world wouldn't stop laughing.

but I think if George gets it people will asking whether he's ok when he starts staring and tilting his head from side to side.

TheDaddy · 13-12-2015, 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

Can you imagine if Boris was the UK's 'ruler' and Trump was the USA's 'ruler'

the world wouldn't stop laughing.

but I think if George gets it people will asking whether he's ok when he starts staring and tilting his head from side to side.

Imagine the hair of those two together if nothing else

Osem · 13-12-2015, 11:52

It doesn't matter what Cameron wants or does. He's not going to get anything significant by way of concessions from the Eurocrats and vested interests so we'll all be left with a very simple choice - leave the ship before it sinks or stay aboard and go down with it. For me it's not even a close call anymore.

Sirius · 13-12-2015, 12:40

It's all a lie. Cameron has no intention of letting us leave the EU, He will water down and water down his demands until we end up giving them more than we do now. He will then call it a success and push for us to stay.

I am still a no voter and intend to stay that way.

solitaire · 13-12-2015, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

It's all a lie. Cameron has no intention of letting us leave the EU, He will water down and water down his demands until we end up giving them more than we do now. He will then call it a success and push for us to stay.

I am still a no voter and intend to stay that way.

Exactly the way I see it. Cameron has no chance of obtaining any significant changes. If he carries on like this, even more people will eventually vote to leave the EU.

Osem · 13-12-2015, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by solitaire

Exactly the way I see it. Cameron has no chance of obtaining any significant changes. If he carries on like this, even more people will eventually vote to leave the EU.

In which case he's doing a very good job of getting the result he doesn't want eh?

Cameron would clearly prefer us to stay in but I reckon he's flogging a dead horse now I really do. It'll be interesting to see whether he tries to sell insignificant changes as meaningful or whether he does the decent thing and admits he's failed to divert the EU superstate from its suicide course.