Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops

[c_r]

Originally Posted by Russ B

As Chris says, a loaded question.

I don't claim to know the mind of God so I can't say for certain but if He is showing His wrath in this way then I believe it would be for many reasons, not just one.

Ok if you don't want to answer then fair enough.

Originally Posted by Russ B

Really? I'd say it's Chris "putting the sweets on the lowest shelf" so to speak.

I don't understand what you're saying. How does Chris T putting the Bible in his own words not mean it's his opinion but that he's 'putting the sweets on the lowest shelf'?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by c_r

Ok if you don't want to answer then fair enough.

What you mean is you didn't get the answer you wanted. I gave you my answer.

Originally Posted by c_r

I don't understand what you're saying. How does Chris T putting the Bible in his own words not mean it's his opinion but that he's 'putting the sweets on the lowest shelf'?

Instead of simply quoting scripture word-for-word, Chris seems to have put the same message in his own words to make it a little easier to understand.

[c_r]

Originally Posted by Russ B

What you mean is you didn't get the answer you wanted. I gave you my answer.

The question was:

'Surely you utterly condemn this bishop's assertion that pro-gay laws have caused God to invoke his wrath though?'

Your answer was:

Originally Posted by Russ B

'I don't claim to know the mind of God so I can't say for certain but if He is showing His wrath in this way then I believe it would be for many reasons, not just one.'

As I said to Chris T earlier, please have the courage of your convictions - if you think gay sex is wrong then just say so.

Originally Posted by Russ B

Instead of simply quoting scripture word-for-word, Chris seems to have put the same message in his own words to make it a little easier to understand.

So it's no longer 'clearly stated in the Bible'?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by c_r

As I said to Chris T earlier, please have the courage of your convictions - if you think gay sex is wrong then just say so.

You're not making much of an effort to hide the fact your question is loaded. Originally it was....

'Surely you utterly condemn this bishop's assertion that pro-gay laws have caused God to invoke his wrath though?'

You said nothing about gay sex. It quite clearly states 'pro-gay laws' which is quite different.

Originally Posted by c_r

So it's no longer 'clearly stated in the Bible'?

No it still is however some people in the past seem to be unable to take in context what is written there so I believe Chris simplified what is in scripture to make it a little more universal in understanding.

By the way I have to make it clear that I'm not speaking on behalf of Chris - I'm only saying what I believe his point is. For clarification you'll need to ask him yourself.

[c_r]

Originally Posted by Russ B

You're not making much of an effort to hide the fact your question is loaded. Originally it was....



You said nothing about gay sex. It quite clearly states 'pro-gay laws' which is quite different.

Well you'd have to assume gay people are going to have sex surely? However, I'll state the question again in terms that presumably even you won't be able to avoid: Is it possible for people who have had penetrative homosexual sex to go to what you regard as heaven?

Originally Posted by Russ B

No it still is however some people in the past seem to be unable to take what is clearly written there in context so I believe Chris simplified what is in scripture to make it a little more universal in understanding.

By the way I have to make it clear that I'm not speaking on behalf of Chris - I'm only saying what I believe his point is. For clarification you'll need to ask him yourself.

Fair enough, I imagine Chris T is quite capable of answering for himself!

[Russ]

Originally Posted by c_r

Well you'd have to assume gay people are going to have sex surely?

Perhaps, but that's not what you asked.

Originally Posted by c_r

However, I'll state the question again in terms that presumably even you won't be able to avoid: Is it possible for people who have had penetrative homosexual sex to go to what you regard as heaven?

I'd have to say yes.

[c_r]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Perhaps, but that's not what you asked.



I'd have to say yes.

Good answer!

And I'd add, if that's your position (you and Chris T), why do you not just say so instead of implying you're homophobic?

I find it completely unbelievable we are talking about "god's wrath" in this day and age surely we have progressed beyond the religious scare tactic's of old. As to entry to heaven for those that believe in it if being a good person in life is not enough to get you in then tbh heaven can't be that great a place to be.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by c_r

Good answer!

And I'd add, if that's your position (you and Chris T), why do you not just say so instead of implying you're homophobic?

Neither Chris or I have ever implied we're homophobic however if someone has a particular agenda then I'm sure they'll try and read whatever they want in to our responses.

[c_r]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Neither Chris or I have ever implied we're homophobic however if someone has a particular agenda then I'm sure they'll try and read whatever they want in to our responses.

I assure you I haven't got an 'agenda' - for the record I was quite gratified to hear you say that practicing homosexuals can go to heaven, you went up substantially in my opinion for that.

[danielf]

It's unlikely, but not impossible presumably that Hitler went to heaven?

[greencreeper]

Originally Posted by danielf

It's unlikely, but not impossible presumably that Hitler went to heaven?

Let's not go down that route of discussion This lot have argued enough as it is, over what (I think) was meant to be a light-hearted thread, of little substance. No one really cares what some old farts with a penchant for choirboys have to say.

I think people have been arguing about the arrogance of religion and the way it feels it can take something that affected many good people and turn it into a judgement. I mean it was way too simple for it to have just been down to a bad decision to allow building on flood plains no it had to be gods judgement.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I think people have been arguing about the arrogance of religion and the way it feels it can take something that affected many good people and turn it into a judgement. I mean it was way too simple for it to have just been down to a bad decision to allow building on flood plains no it had to be gods judgement.

Apologies in advance to all / any of those who hold deeply religious based opinions on this matter - but I'd like to make it absolutely clear that whilst I have no wish, whatsoever, to cause offence to any particular religious grouping I do think it worth noting that I am allowed up later than RizzyKing.

[bopdude]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I am allowed up later than RizzyKing.

You are up late mind you Geek