[Merged] NTL Increasing BB Speeds Late Summer 2004

[erol]

Originally Posted by Matth

You CANNOT compare contention ratios between dialup and cable - a 15:1 ratio on dialup is the ratio of user who could actually CONNECT, whereas on cable, it's bandwidth usage.

With dialup there is 'contention' issue in terms of establishing a connection (how many recieving modems there are to a given number of cutomers) which is not comparable with BB as BB is an always on technology (ie there is a 1:1 ratio on establishing a connection). However in addition to this form of 'connection contention' with dial up there is also the 'normal' issues of 'bandwidth contention' which is comparable to dial ups. Whether this contetion with dial up mainfest itself from an ISP's central modem rack to it's external bandwith connection, or to the (more analgous to BB) senario with wholesale products like surftime and their ilk where the modems live in the exchange and then their is a contended pipe from the exchange back to the ISPs pop.

The point I was trying to make is that generally the faster the end users connection the higher you can run bandwidth contention (in any section of the connection). I will try and explain this a bit clearer (but probably fail).

If X is the amount a user downloads in a given time period and Y is the size of the users pipe as long as Y increases proportionaly greater than X then contention ratios can be higher without any noticable effects relative to the lower connection speeds and higher contention.

(PS guess who is currently reading "It must be beautiful - great equations of modern science)

[DrAwesome]

Originally Posted by Rik

Do u realise that is a extra 500K?
If the answer is yes then you are a very silly billy for asking that question

And you are another forum member who doesnt read all the post, re-read the whole post as it was intended & not just half of it, then & only then you will find enlightenment.

Originally Posted by esdxc37

as a telewest customer on the 1 mb service paying 35 quid a month it is excellent news for me.

Did you mean to post this in the Telewest topic by any chance ?

This thread is about the NTL speed increases.

[NitroNutter]

/me ponders
Is this enough to retain any part of NTL services?

NTL BB:
300k/???k 17.99 whats the up here?128
750k/128k 24.99
1.5mb/256k 37.99
all capped to a 1GB guidance, not that ive ever recieved a letter I know on occasions my households 3 comps do take us over and Im just waiting for the dreaded letter to drop on the mat.

ADSL BB:
256k/???k 19.49
512k/256k 22.49
1mb/256k 26.99
2mb/256k 35.49
Unrestricted. here is the key difference as it makes NTL's lowest plan non-competetive. The higher plans NTL still really falls short in price speed and cap, so I deduct now is still a good time to give adsl a play.

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

Is this enough to retain any part of NTL services?

NTL BB:
300k/???k 17.99 whats the up here?128
750k/128k 24.99
1.5mb/256k 37.99
all capped to a 1GB guidance, not that ive ever recieved a letter I know on occasions my households 3 comps do take us over and Im just waiting for the dreaded letter to drop on the mat.

ADSL BB:
256k/???k 19.49
512k/256k 22.49
1mb/256k 26.99
2mb/256k 35.49
Unrestricted. here is the key difference as it makes NTL's lowest plan non-competetive. The higher plans NTL still really falls short in price speed and cap, so I deduct now is still a good time to give adsl a play.

256k/???k 19.49 Vs. 300k/???k 17.99 whats the up here?128

£1.50 less for a quicker service.... how does this make ntl's low end plan non-competetive?

512k/256k 22.49 Vs. 750k/128k 24.99

Ok so ntl's is dearer by £2.50 however the majority (based on facts and figures) of 600k (750k) users have the speed to download not upload. So, again look at it.. 512k @ 4.3p per K (also not forgetting most 512k services are charged at 27.99), 750 @ 3.32p per K.

Which is better value for money? an extra £2.50 for an extra 238k, which the supplier you mention (for 256k, which is there or there about) charges £19.49 for?!

Top end I cannot arguee with but for the bottom 2, which accounts for 95% of ntl's customers it is nothing but good news.

Ok the upload's are a problem, and, as I've said previously, these are being looked into.
I still fail to see how this speed upgrade, at no extra cost (1mb users aside) can be looked upon in a negative manner!!!
How can people expect the company to improve, if everytime they do something good (which this is) there are people who try and find a way to shoot the company down?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

How can people expect the company to improve, if everytime they do something good (which this is) there are people who try and find a way to shoot the company down?

Because ntl take 1 step forward (speed increase), & 2 steps back (price increase & capped service) that's why.

[etccarmageddon]

For an extra £36 a year 1mb users now get 50% more or alternatively can downgrade to 750 and pay £10 less - sounds like a fair deal to me - apart from the upload speed being pants at the 750 level.

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

...Ok the upload's are a problem, and, as I've said previously, these are being looked into...

cant see where you have commented on this previously??? so do you have it on authority that NTL will improve the upload speed to ADSL levels? or is this just you speculating?

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

256k/???k 19.49 Vs. 300k/???k 17.99 whats the up here?128

£1.50 less for a quicker service.... how does this make ntl's low end plan non-competetive?

512k/256k 22.49 Vs. 750k/128k 24.99

Ok so ntl's is dearer by £2.50 however the majority (based on facts and figures) of 600k (750k) users have the speed to download not upload. So, again look at it.. 512k @ 4.3p per K (also not forgetting most 512k services are charged at 27.99), 750 @ 3.32p per K.

Which is better value for money? an extra £2.50 for an extra 238k, which the supplier you mention (for 256k, which is there or there about) charges £19.49 for?!

Top end I cannot arguee with but for the bottom 2, which accounts for 95% of ntl's customers it is nothing but good news.

Ok the upload's are a problem, and, as I've said previously, these are being looked into.
I still fail to see how this speed upgrade, at no extra cost (1mb users aside) can be looked upon in a negative manner!!!
How can people expect the company to improve, if everytime they do something good (which this is) there are people who try and find a way to shoot the company down?

The move is not negative for sure, but is it positive enough. This was just a comparrison to 1 adsl isp.
The 300k increase could be construed as giving nothing but a speed increase as permitted usage has not increased, which was my point. £1.50 imo is way better to pay over NTL's price for the entry band service for no restriction.
the new 750k has yes still the same permitted usage and lesser upstream speed.
adsl still offer a 1mb service @ considerably reduced cost in comparrison to NTL, with no usage maximum.
The adsl 2mb service is considerably lower than NTL's 1.5mb also with no maximum usage.
As ntl have recently started sending usage letters this has and will probably become more of an issue than it has been since the cap was introduced.
There are other adsl providers offering lower prices for restriced services similar to NTL's and/or out of hours service, ie bulldog primetime.
NTL would have been far better off just doubling all packages and increasing the cap, with maybe a small fee increase of £2-3 on each the higher tiers, which they have done on the 1mb.

When comparing you have to look at all aspects of the service comparrison.

price speed what restrictions/caps

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Neil

Because ntl take 1 step forward (speed increase), & 2 steps back (price increase & capped service) that's why.

Hmmmm.....they are running a business after all.

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by Neil

Because ntl take 1 step forward (speed increase), & 2 steps back (price increase & capped service) that's why.

Fair enough if the cap was introduced AFTER the speed change, but it wasn't. It has been here for a year + now.

They haven't announced the cap after the speed increase so therefore ntl has taken a step back... then one forward?!

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

cant see where you have commented on this previously??? so do you have it on authority that NTL will improve the upload speed to ADSL levels? or is this just you speculating?

This is my marketing dept. telling me that it is being looked into. That's enough of an authority for me at the moment. I am not saying they will up the cap but that they are looking into the possibility.

[ian@huth]

The speed increases can only be seen as a positive measure by NTL as its broadband customers will have up to 100% extra download speed.

I see that their press releases do mention doubling of speed but you have to look further to see that this only applies to 150k customers and as far as I know those that are getting their broadband through the STB already get up to 256k so 300k isn't that much of an increase.

What does this increase in speed actually mean to users and what does it cost NTL to give it?

The vast majority of users will still continue to do the same things at the same time and will hardly notice that their speed has been increased. Most users do not continually download large files so they will notice that any such download is quicker and they will take up the available download bandwidth for a shorter period of time.

It is largely game players who want to host games that should benefit along with users who want to download files 24/7 for whatever reason. Also households with more than one computer networked to use the one connection should benefit where the users are all online at the same time and using bandwidth hungry applications.

It will probably cost NTL very little to implement these new speeds and they may recoup what it does cost by retaining users that may have thought of leaving or recruiting new users. If I was an AOL customer using their broadband via the NTL network I would certainly think about going direct to NTL for it and save £3 a month and have a potentially faster service.

The one big question that needs answering is that of the alleged cap. Will NTL suddenly start enforcing this more in order to throttle back the heavy users who will have more bandwidth available. Will they use this speed increase as an opportunity to admit that the "cap" was not thought out very well and to adjust it more in line with suggestions made through these forums.

As with most things in life, we will have to wait and see what transpires, only time will tell.

[macuser_e7]

It's not that I'm ungrateful for NTL's gesture in increasing download speeds, but from my point of view an improvement in upstream speed would have been more beneficial.

Given the choice between a 750/128 service or a 600/256 option I would take the latter, every time.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

Fair enough if the cap was introduced AFTER the speed change, but it wasn't. It has been here for a year + now.

They haven't announced the cap after the speed increase so therefore ntl has taken a step back... then one forward?!

But they haven't (in true ntl style) addressed the issue of the cap.

All they have effectively done, is increase the time in which their users can exceed the cap-great move (not)

I would say that is two steps back on it's own-not forgetting that TW charge £35.00 for 1MB (1.5MB soon), & ntl charge........ £38.00.

Another step back methinks.

Originally Posted by Neil

But they haven't (in true ntl style) addresseD the issue of the cap

All they have effectively done, is increase the time in which their users can exceed the cap-great move (not)

I would say that is two steps back on it's own-not forgetting that TW charge £35.00 for 1MB (1.5MB soon), & ntl charge........ £38.00.

Another step back methinks.

LOL, what would we do without you to dampen our joy eh Neil

Didn't I read somewhere in here that if a TW customer only takes BB then they have to pay a bit extra so there price difference disappears ?