Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

VM don't install fibre optic for customers. Their whole business model of selling plain old copper as "fibre optic glass" is a scam.

Except that it is FO except for the last bit from the cab to the house. (If I remember correctly )

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by MaverickJesus

As is BT's business model of doing exactly the same with Infinity FTTC.

Except Infinity option 3 IS fibre optic all the way to your house, unlike VM who don't provide any FTTP services at all yet make it sound like all their products are FTTP.

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:30 ----------

Originally Posted by carlwaring

Except that it is FO except for the last bit from the cab to the house. (If I remember correctly )

1) Infinity option 3 is FO including from the cab to the house
2) VM claims their broadband is faster because they use fibre instead of copper e.g.:

The mega speeds of up to 100Mb that you can get with Virgin Broadband are thanks to fibre optic cable. It’s made from strands of glass as thin as hair, which carry information by light. This is much, much faster than the copper telephone wire used by other providers. And, unlike broadband down your phone line, fibre optic broadband doesn't get slower the further away your house is from the telephone exchange.

or

Fibre optic broadband gives you low lag times and consistent speeds.

Our broadband comes to you via fibre optic cable rather than regular copper telephone wires

However speedy the web gets in the future, fibre optic cable is going to be able to handle it. Here at Virgin Broadband we've led the way with fibre optic broadband

BT, which actually does offer FTTP, also only claims their Infinity product is "fibre based". Nowhere do they claim it's fully fibre optic which VM implies several times as above.

VM cable uses far, far more copper than an equivalent BT connection yet they claim it uses none because it's fibre optic. In fact, the only reason it's faster is because they use more copper.

[Chrysalis]

both companies are wrong to sell it as fiber optic, but asa's mindset is like if everyone does it then its ok.

[Itshim]

Bottom line why worry how its delivered. The speed & reliability are the important things

[MaverickJesus]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Except Infinity option 3 IS fibre optic all the way to your house, unlike VM who don't provide any FTTP services at all yet make it sound like all their products are FTTP.

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:30 ----------


1) Infinity option 3 is FO including from the cab to the house
2) VM claims their broadband is faster because they use fibre instead of copper e.g.:

or
BT, which actually does offer FTTP, also only claims their Infinity product is "fibre based". Nowhere do they claim it's fully fibre optic which VM implies several times as above.

VM cable uses far, far more copper than an equivalent BT connection yet they claim it uses none because it's fibre optic. In fact, the only reason it's faster is because they use more copper.

Technically that is true though? It DOES come via fibre optic cable (they don't stipulate ONLY via fibre optic) and it also doesn't come by copper telephone wire. Everything you have highlighted is correct?

I have as many serious reservations about Virgin as the next guy but you are being incredibly biased - I don't see how what they are saying is deceitful but BT advertising Option 2 as 'fibre broadband' is fine? You can't have it both ways.

[qasdfdsaq]

Not really. VM make a number of technically incorrect claims, and others are simply misleading. OK - BT does call Infinity "fibre optic" once on the product page, but does not go on to make a dozen further claims that the service itself delivered to your home is fibre optic - only that it is "fibre-based". However, since BT does in fact have at least one pure fibre optic option - and VM has none - the claim that Infinity is fibre optic isn't quite as untrue.

Firstly, VM claim: "It's all down to our network of fibre optic cables, the fastest and most reliable way for us to bring broadband into your home." - incorrect. The service is not brought into your home using fibre optic cables.

"Fibre optic is the fastest" - technically correct, though VM don't provide fibre-optic consumer service, only their competitors do.

"The mega speeds of up to 100Mb that you can get with Virgin Broadband are thanks to fibre optic cable." - debateable. You could equally say the mega speeds of up to 24Mbps ADSL2+ are thanks to fibre optic cable.

"It’s made from strands of glass as thin as hair, which carry information by light." - correct.

"This is much, much faster than the copper telephone wire used by other providers." - misleading and an invalid comparison. Other providers do not use copper telephone wire for their backhaul. VM do not use fibre optic for connection to your house. The parts of their competitors network that use copper telephone wire are also made of copper on VM's network. The parts that use fibre on VM also use fibre on their competitors network.

"And, unlike broadband down your phone line, fibre optic broadband doesn't get slower the further away your house is from the telephone exchange." - technically incorrect. FTTC broadband down your phone line does not get slower the further away your house is from the exchange, because you are not connected to any exchange.

"Our broadband comes to you via fibre optic cable rather than regular copper telephone wires" - again a misleading and incorrect comparison. No section of VM's network is made of fibre optic "rather than regular copper telephone wires". The part of the service delivered over a regular copper telephone wire on BT is delivered over regular copper coaxial wire on VM. The part of the network run over fibre on VM is also run over fibre on BT. The fibre optic part does not replace the copper part on a telephone system, it's comparing apples to oranges. "Rather than" implies there is actually fibre optic somewhere where there would be copper on a competitors network. In fact, there is just even more copper.

"Fibre optic broadband gives you low lag times and consistent speeds." isn't correct either, as recent reports show clearly that lower lag times and more consistent speed are delivered over a copper phone cable. VM's service by its very nature delivers higher lag times and less consistent speeds, regardless of whether it's fibre optic or not.

Finally, "However speedy the web gets in the future, fibre optic cable is going to be able to handle it." is also misleading, as fibre optic cable does not enter your home, therefore is of no relevance of how fast your actual connection will be able to handle.

While every provider's service comes via fibre optic cable at some point, VM's marketing clearly wants you to think it's all fibre optic. At no point does BT claim it's "much better because we use fibre optic instead of copper" VM does it a dozen times, and makes several incorrect claims about it.

BT on the other hand make very light use of the term in its description, it is only mentioned twice:

"BT Infinity has upgraded its network of fibre optic broadband technology to deliver the internet at groundbreaking speed"
and
"At present, fibre-based broadband such as BT Infinity is installed by an engineer"

Neither of which is factually incorrect, and neither of which are misleading. The product itself is described as fibre optic once and while I don't think it's entirely accurate, at least one of their services is in fact pure fibre so it's not entirely misleading either.

Finally, the term "fibre optic" is never used once on BT's main broadband page, nor do BT ever specifically claim fibre is delivered to your home (even though it sometimes is).
So, on their main broadband home page, VM claim they bring broadband into your home via fibre optic. BT does not use the term "fibre optic" at all, anywhere, in relation to any product.

On their specific product details page, VM makes 9 claims about fibre optic, 3 misleadingly and 3 downright incorrect. BT makes 3 statements, one of which is debatable and zero incorrect.

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by MaverickJesus

I have as many serious reservations about Virgin as the next guy but you are being incredibly biased...

No surprise there then

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

No surprise there then

I'm entitled to be biased any way I want, and so are you.

More topic, less personal attacks.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Posts deleted. I suggest that members learn to abide by instructions posted by moderators.

[Wild Oscar]

Firstly , apologies if I've missed this information in this massive thread , but I have a question!

I'll be upgraded from 50Mb to 100Mb later in the year , and I presume I'll be supplied with a new Superhub to accommodate this increase when it happens .. does this trigger a new contract?

[qasdfdsaq]

If you are already on 50mb you do not need a new Superhub but one will be supplied if you want it.

If you request to be upgraded immediately you *may* be subject to a new contract, if you wait until it happens by itself you will not.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Wild Oscar

Firstly , apologies if I've missed this information in this massive thread , but I have a question!

I'll be upgraded from 50Mb to 100Mb later in the year , and I presume I'll be supplied with a new Superhub to accommodate this increase when it happens .. does this trigger a new contract?

When I changed to 50mb I was given a shub, and told that it would be suitable for 100mb. However when I upgraded to 100mb, they gave me a new shub, and said that there had been issues with the older models, and that's why they were changing it.

[Bonglet]

Virgin seem to be playing catchup now, my friend recently had infinity installed and is currently getting more than me on 30mb (he gets just under 40, 10 upload) and he is getting a free upgrade on the 8th may to about 75.5mb and upload to 20mb, when i eventually get this free upgrade to 60mb with a terribad upload god knows when and its already behind :S.
I think virign really need to look again at there current pricing structure or i can see a big wedge of customers migrating over to BT in the very near future ;s.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Bonglet

Virgin seem to be playing catchup now, my friend recently had infinity installed and is currently getting more than me on 30mb (he gets just under 40, 10 upload) and he is getting a free upgrade on the 8th may to about 75.5mb and upload to 20mb, when i eventually get this free upgrade to 60mb with a terribad upload god knows when and its already behind :S.
I think virign really need to look again at there current pricing structure or i can see a big wedge of customers migrating over to BT in the very near future ;s.

Your friend must be on the highest package for infinity. If you were on VM's highest they you would be on at least 100mb, upgrading to 120mb.

I know VM are far from perfect, but you have to remember that BT's fibre network is new, and VM's is an old network that is gradually being upgraded.

Apparently years ago, some bright spark decided to cut costs by using aluminium cable between the node and the cabinets on what is now VM's network, as aluminium was cheaper than copper. And now they are getting corrosion problems, so all this cable is gradually being replaced. And this should solve a lot of the signal problems in many areas. BT also used aluminium cables in some areas, but because their speed was much slower before infinity, then it wasn't much of a problem. But with the fibre being installed new by BT, they are getting around this problem.