School gym forced to shut

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by punky

And that is precisely why my comments aren't anti-Islamic. I would say the same about any religion or culture who believes in the separation in sexes in that way. I am not pointing the finger at Islam but at these parents.

I've explained my reasoning numerous times, if that's not good enough for you, then i'm sorry. Its all you're going to get. I'm not going to keep repeating myself.

No, you are pointing the finger at Islam and that these parents are taking the stance they did because of religion. You have made assumptions that these parents dont allow their kids to mix freely, citing muslim countries, and the religion - of which in my opinion you have a high ignorance of- and somehow are abusing their rights and ability to develop, based on the fact that they are muslims.

[punky]

Sorry you aren't laying that old chestnut on me.

I have freely discussed that Muslims outside of countries like Saudi Arabia do not practice sexual segregation and at every conceivable have tried to separate the practices of sexual segregation and Islam.

One of the many counters to the laughable concept that I am ignorant and anti-Muslim, I am actually going to a Muslim country on holiday soon. Whilst there I am going to have respect Muslim rules and their culture. The trip is entirely voluntary.

You need to remove that sizeable chip off your shoulder and drop the Islamic victimisation complex. Not every post that mentions Islam or Muslims is an attack on Islam despite what you want to believe.

It might be nice if a few others dropped the poor old Christian or British being overwhelmed by those nasty evil Muslims who are all trying to change our way of life as well punky...it does work both ways.

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Excuse me but who are you to say that muslim parents who send their daughters to single sex schools are a) stopping their girls from mixing, b) abusing their human rights - as you imply in a further post. In some muslim countries women don't travel alone, or mix freely with men alone, but are you telling me that the mixing of men and women doesn't go on? Additionally you seem to think what happens in Teran and Riyadh is what happens in all muslim homes in the UK?

Anti muslim? racist? All the negative comments in this thread have a totally anti Islamic view to them. The usual generalisations have been made against muslims - rather boring by now. Granted there are countries in the muslim world where men and women dont mix in the open - but for you to conclude that it doesn't happen at all is an ignorant view point. Rather then ask or look at other reasons as to why people might object - i.e the fact that the parents have paid their daughters to go to a single sex school, where in most likelyhood at the time of taking their money, the school assured them it was a single sex environment, that is no longer the case. I.e - you pay for something, half way through your contract its changed, and then you complain.

I went to a single sex school, my sisters went to a single sex school, my nieces went to single sex schools. They all mix freely. You also seem to forget that alot of these girls will end up in mixed universities. Have you been into a london university lately? If not take a look. There are many muslim girls in there in a mixed environment and they have not suffered from going to single sex schools.

if Muslims do not mind mixing then why do they mind this gym? do you not see the contradiction?

If it is a minority of Muslims that would see this as a problem then I see no reason to pander to them because if its ok for this mix in Islamic law then they have no grounds at all to complain

Its like the Burka which I believe is a choice thing and not a religious doctrine? if that is the case then Muslims wearing these have no grounds to complain if requested to remove them in banks etc

[punky]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

It might be nice if a few others dropped the poor old Christian or British being overwhelmed by those nasty evil Muslims who are all trying to change our way of life as well punky...it does work both ways.

Your words, not mine.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

if Muslims do not mind mixing then why do they mind this gym? do you not see the contradiction?

In fairness to SLM, he could be making the point that *some* muslims mind. This does not imply that *all* muslims mind any more than (say) saying some Christians object to Homosexuality implies that all Christians do.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

It might be nice if a few others dropped the poor old Christian or British being overwhelmed by those nasty evil Muslims who are all trying to change our way of life as well punky...it does work both ways.

Maggy Muslims originally come here for a reason imo they have no right to make demands on our culture. Live and let live let them live how they wish in their own homes or society thats fine I have no problem with that but cases like this where our culture isnt given priority that guiles me

---------- Post added at 15:12 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Stuart C

In fairness to SLM, he could be making the point that *some* muslims mind. This does not imply that *all* muslims mind any more than (say) saying some Christians object to Homosexuality implies that all Christians do.

some all one or more does not matter it simply shows these rules are not set in doctrine and therefore can not be used as a reason

Either those living SLM way are doing it by the book or those who dont mix are both of them can not be following the same rules

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

some all one or more does not matter it simply shows these rules are not set in doctrine and therefore can not be used as a reason

Either those living SLM way are doing it by the book or those who dont mix are both of them can not be following the same rules

The rules are, as I understand them, that it is wrong for Males and Females to mix. At least for Muslims. I personally think that we should all be encouraged to mix with the opposite sex. Some Muslims do not follow that ideal. I bought up the example of homosexuality with good reason. As I understand it, the Bible is fairly explicit in it's condemnation of homosexuality, so if a Christian is to follow the bible to the letter, they should condemn homosexuality. Not all Christians do.

Well if that is a religious doctrine those that do not follow it are not devout Muslims surely? I am as some know a none practising Jehovas Witness and I became inactive because I would not be a hipocrite. I could not follow the lifestyle that I needed to to follow that religion so instead of doing what I want and still call myself a JW I left.

If you are going to live your life by a doctrine you can not pick or choose which parts you follow if you do you are being false to your God

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

yeah right so when there are photofit images of suspects no one ever sees them yeah yeah

Originally Posted by Damien

They blew themselves up? What good would photofit images do?

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

no there was the failed attempt remember one of them got out the country in a burka

[demented]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

The rules are, as I understand them, that it is wrong for Males and Females to mix. At least for Muslims. I personally think that we should all be encouraged to mix with the opposite sex. Some Muslims do not follow that ideal. I bought up the example of homosexuality with good reason. As I understand it, the Bible is fairly explicit in it's condemnation of homosexuality, so if a Christian is to follow the bible to the letter, they should condemn homosexuality. Not all Christians do.

bringing up the concept of secondary issues (or tertiary and so on) is an important idea. To me (perhaps in my imaginings) you and zinglebarb are saying more similar things than you perhaps think. For me how worked up people get about secondary or tertiary issues is an acid test of how conservative (or in the language of the day that I don't like how "extreme" or "fundamentalist") they are. It is so applicable to so many of these arguments.

I think it's a shame that a gym has closed over such a minor issue.

Originally Posted by foreverwar

the topics moved on and I did link you to information. 4 were hunted 2 were arrested quite quickly the 3rd was arrested soon after and a 4th was arrested in Rome

here is your information about the one that escaped in a Burka so no longer be confussed

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4316561.ece

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

Well if that is a religious doctrine those that do not follow it are not devout Muslims surely? I am as some know a none practising Jehovas Witness and I became inactive because I would not be a hipocrite. I could not follow the lifestyle that I needed to to follow that religion so instead of doing what I want and still call myself a JW I left.

If you are going to live your life by a doctrine you can not pick or choose which parts you follow if you do you are being false to your God

Who decides on behalf of everyone in that faith which version to follow, as different sections of the faith interpret things differently - for instance, I am Christian, but I won't sell my daughter into slavery, or burn my mother for wearing mixed fibre clothing, or put my colleagues to death for working on Sunday.

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Who decides on behalf of everyone in that faith which version to follow, as different sections of the faith interpret things differently - for instance, I am Christian, but I won't sell my daughter into slavery, or burn my mother for wearing mixed fibre clothing, or put my colleagues to death for working on Sunday.

you been out dude? can see you posting quite a few questions and contrary remarks for a while. I will let you catch up mate

I was a bit mixed up with the Burka info but I did remember some of it unlike your goodself

From a little bit of googling I got it mixed up with a murderer who escaped the country in a burka

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

you been out dude? can see you posting quite a few questions and contrary remarks for a while. I will let you catch up mate

I was a bit mixed up with the Burka info but I did remember some of it unlike your goodself

It was specifically in reply to your post above which included "If you are going to live your life by a doctrine you can not pick or choose which parts you follow if you do you are being false to your God ".

You seem to be stating all or nothing - I was highlighting that perhaps it isn't so black and white to some people.