Is this allowed?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

As for my comments about the outbuilding, it was intended to show how easy it is to break T&C's and be doing somehting that is acceptable, therefore it IS relevant.

Not really, because if you were using your own BB connection in your own outhouse/garden via your own wireless connection, then you're breaking no T's & C's whatsoever.

So you see, it was irrelevant after all!

I give up, I'll go collect the firewood so we can burn him at the stake. Perhaps we could find some others and hound them out and have a bigger bonfire


I only hope that everyone on here has never downloaded something illegally or allowed a file to be shared or done anything such as uncapping a modem (cough) because if you have you have no right to the moral high ground here.
I reckon theres people on here with more than 3 PC's sharing one connection, perhaps they should be burned at thge stake also? or is that OK because they arent making money from it or taking pensioners money?


I dont see what he has done as right, but I think theres more pressing issues we should be concerned about.
Personally I'm no angel, but I am NOT a hypocrite. (that is not aimed at everyone, just those people that know they break T&C's yet continue to presecute those others that do.

[simpsonsFAN]

Ok, following a letter on my doorstep this morning from the ntl internet security team, threating to cut off my connection in 7 days time if I dont stop running a business and selling broadband using my connection...

I have decided to move to a proper internet webhost, and will be reclaiming my wireless ethernet bridges during the day.

Hope your happy cableforum,
-Chris

[MovedGoalPosts]

To clear up a misconception here. The simple act of reselling of a broadband connection is not illegal as such, after all there are many legal resellers of such services.

When reselling is against the terms and conditions of the ISP, then it is a breach of contract by the reseller. The ISP is thus entitled to cancel the cotnract, and seek damages if it wishes. That is a civil law matter.

The web hosting of "free" servers is also an area that would come under scrutiny within the Ts & Cs, as a breach of contract rather than criminal law.

The criminal illegality bit will depend on how the reselling of the connection has been stated. We do not know what has been said to the pensioners. If he is selling a "share" of his connnection, that could be a reasonable statement. If he is selling a minimum speed, or bandwidth, that would be far more risky.

Now the real debate kickc in as to if he is not entitled to resell, as that is against his contract, does the act of reselling count as fraud - I suppose yes. It's got to be a little bit like handling stolen goods, you are not entitled to the item so making money from it is theft. Whether it is that serious that one could argue the cost being sold are so high relative to what is on offer as to be a form of extortion, I doubt we can currently say. We don't know how many are on this connection. One or two sharers might not be bad but 10, must be?

OK so he is offering some form of support service to thise pensioners. Nothing wrong with that. Indeed if he wishes he is entitled to charge somethign for that service. Again the amount that is charged woudl be the aspect of scrutiny.

Finally there is the aspect of the income from this. It would be regarded as taxable, so if it is not declared it is a form of tax evasion. We don't know that this is or is not happening and it would be unreasonable for us to make any accusation without more facts. That many (in all walks of lfe) no doubt do look on little bits of extra income as their own without declaring it is irrelevant as any defence or justification.

So what should really have happened is that each has their own direct connection with an ISP and then a reasonable charge is levied for support services.

[simpsonsFAN]

Originally Posted by Rob C

<big snip>

Totaly irrelvent now, (read my other post above yours).
-Chris

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

Ok, following a letter on my doorstep this morning from the ntl internet security team, threating to cut off my connection in 7 days time if I dont stop running a business and selling broadband using my connection...

I have decided to move to a proper internet webhost, and will be reclaiming my wireless ethernet bridges during the day.

Hope your happy cableforum,
-Chris

Quite happy thanks, Chris. We'll make an honest businessman of you yet. Now, if you could revisit your homepage and do something about your atrocious spelling and dubious punctuation, I'm sure you'll be a dotcom millionaire by teatime. Good luck.

[Nemesis]

Now lets look at ntl's AUP, and the breaches of it so far ...

Originally Posted by ntl AUP

2. General Use


2. in a way that will be a breach of any person's rights, including a breach of confidence, copyright, privacy or any other rights; [BROKEN] or
3. in breach of any instructions we have given you under the Agreement; [BROKEN] or
4. in a way that is associated with a criminal offence; [BROKEN] or
8. in excess of "normal use" bandwidth limits set out in this section. [BROKEN]*

ntl: home's broadband and dial-up services are intended for normal recreational or educational use by individuals and families and our pricing and network architecture have been designed accordingly. Customers who use the services more heavily than a normal home user will reduce the performance of the network for other customers.

"Normal use" of the service is defined as up to 1 gigabyte downstream of data transfer daily (which equates to approximately 200 music tracks, 650 short videos, 10,000 pictures or around 100 large software programmes downloaded per day).

4. Unacceptable Behaviour


Nobody may use the Service, either directly or indirectly:

1. to threaten, harass or cause distress, annoyance or discomfort to any other person or entity; [BROKEN]
2. to intentionally disrupt or adversely affect any other person or entity's access to or use of the Internet or any features which form part of the Internet; [BROKEN]

11. Fraud


Nobody may use the Services, either directly or indirectly to impersonate any person, entity or a minor or to commit or attempt to commit any fraud.
[BROKEN]

20. Use of the Network (Broadband services)


You must not connect more than three (3) PC's to the Broadband Services at any one time. [BROKEN]

In connecting to the Broadband Service, you must only use a PC you own or lease, [BROKEN] and you must not attempt to connect your PC to the Broadband Services from outside your home [BROKEN]. This includes the use of wireless or non-wireless networking technology to connect your PC or any other PC to your Broadband Services from outside your home (other than your own garden) [BROKEN] or the connection of your PC to anyone else's Broadband Services.

Anyone else want to try and defend this ???

[Neil]

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

Ok, following a letter on my doorstep this morning from the ntl internet security team, threating to cut off my connection in 7 days time if I dont stop running a business and selling broadband using my connection...

I have decided to move to a proper internet webhost, and will be reclaiming my wireless ethernet bridges during the day.

Hope your happy cableforum,
-Chris

As happy as you are ripping off OAPs.

I hope you sleep well, & I also wonder how you would feel if it were your parents/grandparents getting ripped off in some way?

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

I have been a ntl customour for years now, I doubt they are going to threaten me now on your advice

You think?

[simpsonsFAN]

Originally Posted by Simon M

<big snip>Anyone else want to try and defend this ???

Clearly not...
-Chris

[Chris W]

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

and will be reclaiming my wireless ethernet bridges during the day.

And now your pensioners lose their internet connection without warning...

I hope you give a truthful explanation of why you are closing down your mini isp, and i hope your pensioners demand a full refund of what they have paid you so far.

Originally Posted by Chris W

And now your pensioners lose their internet connection without warning...

I hope you give a truthful explanation of why you are closing down your mini isp, and i hope your pensioners demand a full refund of what they have paid you so far.

Good point. Chris, are you going to help your victims to choose a proper ISP now, and help them set their PCs up? It's the least you should be doing. Or would it expose just how badly you were ripping them off when they hand just an extra fiver a month to someone else and suddenly discover what broadband speed is meant to look like?

[simpsonsFAN]

Originally Posted by Chris W

And now your pensioners lose their internet connection without warning...

Fraid so, I have been given 7days to remove the lot by NTL home, and I intend to have it all back by the end of the day as im not going to loose my connection, or pay 89.99/month for 1.5mb NTL business broadband.

Originally Posted by Chris W

I hope you give a truthful explanation of why you are closing down your mini isp, and i hope your pensioners demand a full refund of what they have paid you so far.

I will tell them exactly why I am closing down my "mini isp", and I will pay back this months broadband charges to them, but somehow I dont think they will be demanding full refunds off me.

Now, on a different subject.. What on earth am I going to do with 20 odd linksys wireless ethernet bridges and a spare email server?
-Chris

[punky]

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

Ok, following a letter on my doorstep this morning from the ntl internet security team, threating to cut off my connection in 7 days time if I dont stop running a business and selling broadband using my connection...

Nice one NTL for such a quick response Shame they didn't just cancel the whole account forthwith, but still, better than nothing.

[Jules]

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

Now, on a different subject.. What on earth am I going to do with 20 odd linksys wireless ethernet bridges and a spare email server?
-Chris

Maybe sell them to your victims...err customers so they have them ready when NTL put there proper connection in

HAHA PARTY TIME WOOHOO