*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by th'engineer

Thats good thought you was comparing lemons with apples lets only look at the UK please

I'll be thinking of you while surfing on my 10Mbit/1Mbit connection in Canada

Even if it does have a CAP

[daxx]

Originally Posted by Ignition

I'll be thinking of you while surfing on my 10Mbit/1Mbit connection in Canada

Even if it does have a CAP

perchance does the impending move to CA have anything to do with your inate desires to be a lumberjack

http://www.mwscomp.com/sounds/mp3/lumberjk.mp3

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by daxx

perchance does the impending move to CA have anything to do with your inate desires to be a lumberjack

http://www.mwscomp.com/sounds/mp3/lumberjk.mp3

You wish daxx.

[Chrysalis]

Bill C I was reffering you to bringing up the british gas/centrica subject.

Ignition and others I take on your points about UBR contention and yes you are right that is a small choke point and as such is harder to manage contention level's, so you pointed out telewest are making more profit, could you perhaps point out why you think this is? Bad management from ntl perhaps or is it just Telewest's packages are more profitable.

To be quite frank I dont care if 95% of people want this and that its not all about the masses, your argument seems to be its ok if 5% subsidise the 95% but not ok the other way round and you conveniantly only compare to BT and wannadoo who are both a joke of an isp. 10mbit is overkill for surfing, if I was just surfing I would be on the 17.99 package and jumping for joy because the new tiers are awesome for web surfer's they have nothing to complain about, perhaps these are the people just been one sided? Its people who download large files who are shafted because they have no package available for them, and when I mentioned hard cap earlier I meant hard cap as in going over will not be ignored as it is now there will be some sort of action taken by the isp not necessarily been cut off.

The thing is going back to the 95% of users argument your point is also flawed, for example lets say 5% of users are using more traffic then NTL see as acceptable so the other 95% of users subsidise this, this cost is seperated between 95% of users and as such it will only be small per user maybe not even £1 on a monthly bill. However the other way round how much does it cost to provide weekly support for 95% if ntl's customer's??? this must be a fair amount and more then the extra bandwidth costs and only 5% of users are subsidising it to, so that cost split between 5% of users is a higher amount on each bill maybe £2 or £3 a month. So my argument is the bulk of users might be paying £1 to pay for my traffic (I use 30-50 gig a month) but I pay £2 to pay for them ringing up ntl on toll free lines.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Bill C I was reffering you to bringing up the british gas/centrica subject.

Well you started that subject. please go ahead and report me i dont care really care anymore.

Now now people, lets play nice please.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

snip>
The thing is going back to the 95% of users argument your point is also flawed, for example lets say 5% of users are using more traffic then NTL see as acceptable so the other 95% of users subsidise this, this cost is seperated between 95% of users and as such it will only be small per user maybe not even £1 on a monthly bill. However the other way round how much does it cost to provide weekly support for 95% if ntl's customer's??? this must be a fair amount and more then the extra bandwidth costs and only 5% of users are subsidising it to, so that cost split between 5% of users is a higher amount on each bill maybe £2 or £3 a month. So my argument is the bulk of users might be paying £1 to pay for my traffic (I use 30-50 gig a month) but I pay £2 to pay for them ringing up ntl on toll free lines.

That argument is rather flawed in that it assumes that the 5% of heavy users are all experienced and never need support and the other 95% are inexperienced and are constantly ringing for support.

There are quite a few heavy users who are new to the internet, hear about P2P and dive straight in trying to download the whole internet overnight. You regularly see posts from them complaining about things like slow downloads which turn out to be caused by them maxing out their uploads instead of throttling them back to allow for download ACK packets to be sent. They have a new toy but don't know how to use it properly.

On the other side of the coin there are many users that are very experienced and never need support but have a usage well within the cap.

[Tragedy]

Can anybody tell me when the upgrade's are coming?

[Ignition]

*sigh*

The average usage for a broadband user in the UK is 6GB (This includes 'heavier' users).

5% of users are responsible for 65% of usage.

Remove that and the average drops below 5GB. I would hope that the caps make more sense. You can't please everyone all the time, however the majority that will be fine with 5GB along with the >95% that are fine with 30GB or 40GB will be pleased.

You can please some people all the time, all people some of the time, never everyone all the time.

With ADSL available to more than 96% of the population now according to BT and ntl being available in generally built up areas where there's also ADSL is there any reason to stay with ntl if the new services don't agree with your usage plans.

Conversation on this issue is futile, the facts are the caps are happening, on their way, if they don't appeal or suit usage do what you would do if your supermarket didn't suit you and use someone else. Nothing else to be said really. That's the way it is, like it or go elsewhere. When you cut through the PR, etc that's all that can be said.

That's all I have to say on it too, silly subject to debate (again) at depth, right or wrong it's happening, take it or go.

Originally Posted by Ignition

*sigh*

The average usage for a broadband user in the UK is 6GB (This includes 'heavier' users).

5% of users are responsible for 65% of usage.

Remove that and the average drops below 5GB. I would hope that the caps make more sense. You can't please everyone all the time, however the majority that will be fine with 5GB along with the >95% that are fine with 30GB or 40GB will be pleased.

You can please some people all the time, all people some of the time, never everyone all the time.

With ADSL available to more than 96% of the population now according to BT and ntl being available in generally built up areas where there's also ADSL is there any reason to stay with ntl if the new services don't agree with your usage plans.

Conversation on this issue is futile, the facts are the caps are happening, on their way, if they don't appeal or suit usage do what you would do if your supermarket didn't suit you and use someone else. Nothing else to be said really. That's the way it is, like it or go elsewhere. When you cut through the PR, etc that's all that can be said.

That's all I have to say on it too, silly subject to debate (again) at depth, right or wrong it's happening, take it or go.

all i can say is sooooooo true and to the point.

What gets me about this is.

Just because you double you download speed does not mean you have to double the amount you download. Gee some heavy users must have very very big drives.

sits back and waits for the normal heavy users to say how small there drives are

Originally Posted by th'engineer

I know thats why i agree with rone

So when you moving

[tomjleeds]

Originally Posted by Ignition

I'll be thinking of you while surfing on my 10Mbit/1Mbit connection in Canada

Even if it does have a CAP

Suggestion, check out the RoadRunner Business packages (available to residences). 10Mbit/2.5Mbit for $80/month

I've increased my knowledge of the overall NTL network somewhat from reading this thread, so thanks to all for the good information that's been passed around

So, the consensus on the network seems to be that the UBRs/CTMSs are the problem, rather than the national backbone. I assume this is either due to hardware limitations, lack of dynamically provided bandwidth or just plain overloading of the systems?

What's classed as a 'heavy' user?

[Hans Gruber]

If it is down to the UBRs it's annoying that people in areas unaffected with oversubscription should be burdened with the same cap levels.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by tomjleeds

Suggestion, check out the RoadRunner Business packages (available to residences). 10Mbit/2.5Mbit for $80/month

Minor issues:

1) RoadRunner = TimeWarner Cable = USA
2) There's no 10Mbit/2.5Mbit package, top package is 4Mbit/2Mbit, not available in all areas (presumably relies on DOCSIS 2, to give out a 2Mbit upstream without DOCSIS 2 is suicidal).

It's also a mere $409.95 a month.

RoadRunner Premium is the closest one in pricing I think, 6Mbps downstream (soon moving to 8), 512k upstream, $84.95/month.

[tomjleeds]

Originally Posted by Ignition

Minor issues:

1) RoadRunner = TimeWarner Cable = USA
2) There's no 10Mbit/2.5Mbit package, top package is 4Mbit/2Mbit, not available in all areas (presumably relies on DOCSIS 2, to give out a 2Mbit upstream without DOCSIS 2 is suicidal).

It's also a mere $409.95 a month.

RoadRunner Premium is the closest one in pricing I think, 6Mbps downstream (soon moving to 8), 512k upstream, $84.95/month.

I guess the issue of it being USA only is kind of big To be honest, I don't really see why anyone would need anything faster than 4Mbps/0.8Mbps, if I think about it.

Perhaps it's offered to businesses only - my friend gets it through his employer. That wasn't the impression which I got from him, but anyway, before this thread turns into a PM conversation...

What exactly is the main problem with the UBRs?