Merged: W32 Blaster Virus - Page 10

BenH · 13-08-2003, 19:57

Quote:

Originally posted by hawkmoon
Can you keep the personal insults out of this please.

What my job entails and whether I am good at customer care / services is not really any of your business. I have done low level tech support and worked my way up to a more senior position with a very good proven track record.

Plus trying to cast aspersions on my abilities is not the best way to win an argument - as they say those who resort to insults tend to have lost the argument.

Yes I am ignoring the points as I just don't desire to argue with you about how perfect Linux is anymore! It is getting very boring.

So in other words, you cannot give any intelligent counters to the points I raised, I'm a nasty horrible person, and your running away.

How very irritating, as I would like to know where I said that Linux was perfect, but I would guess that you would have ignored that as well and continue whining about how horrible a person I am.

BenH · 13-08-2003, 20:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Incognitas
Excuse me! Is this the thread for merged:W32 Blaster Virus?Only it's hard to tell due to the fact of you two being all macho about OS's.How about continuing this spat in private?

Thank you.

Incog.

Its a continuation of a thread from about 2 merges ago.

My apologies for the amount of noise its generating, its just that I do not like to see people post half truths and overgeneralisations, and then to walk away from it without backing up their statements in detail.

If it bothers you that much then you can request the intervention of a Moderator or killfile a poster from your control panel.

Regards,

Ben

**Maggy** · 13-08-2003, 20:12

So why is W32 Blaster Virus the main part of the thread title?

Incog

BenH · 13-08-2003, 20:16

Quote:

Originally posted by DeadKenny
However you won't find Windows users getting smug about their OS every time a security hole is found in Linux.

They'll be dancing in their seats if a far ranging exploitable hole is ever uncovered and then takes days rather than the customary hours for a patch to be release.

Now for a little fact. As a direct result of the open source model that your so scornful of, patches for security exploits are released an average of 6 - 10 times faster than the windows equivalent.

Quote:

Just the way it is really. Bill has made a heck of a lot of money, many of us have nicely paid jobs thanks to him, and I guess some people can't accept that.

I can fully accept that Bill, Paul and Steve has made an astounding amount of money. They are true icons of the capitalist system that I support. Despite their desire for communism in the computer market.

I can also accept as a direct result of microsofts anti competitive and anti capitalist corporate policy that they've held the computer industry back by about 10 years.

I can also accept that like with all technology, windows and microsofts time is coming to an end with the advent of something new and better, called GNU/Linux.

And I can also accept that in about 20 - 30 years from now, GNU/Linux time would have passed and something else will take its place. Probably based on the OS model, possibly not.

The real problem is the people who can not and will not accept that. But I have no doubt that the markety will provide for them

Regards,

Ben

DeadKenny · 13-08-2003, 20:16

Quote:

Originally posted by BenH
And here we come to the rub, let me guess, your a .NET developer. The same .NET that Gartner pointed out was a huge security nightmare.

You guessed wrong

The company I work for writes enterprise level software with a large emphasis on portable code in strict C++ (mainly using the raw language and STL), that runs under both unix and Windows (NT line) operating systems. There's no hint of .Net in there and there's not likely to be with the current business strategy. The back-end (majority of the software) is completely platform independent and the UI is a split between platform independent web server code (runs on any web server, CGI based XML/XSL transform engine) and a Windows specific user application.

We're talking mission critical here in some cases which is why we have no customers requesting linux support. All the unix platforms are Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, etc. Windows platforms are server level (2000, 2003 server, clusters, etc). Client side is partly whatever runs a browser (yes, we support Mozilla), and 2k/XP for the Windows app.

We have a strict rule of keeping 3rd party software to a minimum because of the support nightmare we have with them. Open source software has cost a fortune due to the complexities of getting their software fixed. They won't fix it, and why should they when we didn't pay for it and they're not getting paid either, so they expect us to fix it. Commercial software we've used comes with a maintenance contact, one call and a bunch of enthusiastic well paid developers get on the case and a fix can arrive next day. Same with Microsoft if you pay them enough on support, but consider how much it costs a highly paid developer to waste time trying to fix it themselves over many months (trust me, I've suffered the pain).

Gimp vs Photoshop...

Apart from Photoshop not being specifically "Windows", even Mac users would disagree that Gimp is the choice over Photoshop

.

Though obviously if they're using Photoshop for way under what it's designed for, then there's a cost saving but the same could be said of picking 'Paint' over Photoshop (or even PaintShopPro). All depends what you're using it for, but it's not a fair comparison.

Quote:

Also you've failed to say why MS marketing department (which lets face it is the real sucess of the company) had NT 5 renamed to 2000...

Who cares? It's marketing, and an inspired choice. It sold more software and makes me more money. I'd have a much harder time (and be worse off) working for a linux blinkered company rather than one who embraces all operating systems and doesn't have it in for anything "Microsoft".

BenH · 13-08-2003, 20:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Incognitas
So why is W32 Blaster Virus the main part of the thread title?

Incog

It started out as RPC/Reboot virus. One of the mods quipped how smug and safe he felt behind his mandrake 9.1 (a very, very newbie friendly distro available for download if your interested) and it all started from there.

Regards,

Ben

DeadKenny · 13-08-2003, 20:23

Quote:

Originally posted by BenH
I can also accept as a direct result of microsofts anti competitive and anti capitalist corporate policy that they've held the computer industry back by about 10 years.

Don't really agree with that. We'd all be bearded sandle wearing freaks still typing obscure command lines if it wasn't for Microsoft.

It's quite funny the split between the unix lovers and microsoft lovers in our company. One bunch are obssessed with cryptic commands that no one else understands, and the others wouldn't touch a command prompt with a barge poll

. Still, we're learning off each other and I have to say the unix bunch are adopting a few MS things... because in some cases it makes life a little easier, which is what MS are about. Since adopting unix, many of the MS fans are far more aware of unix and it's roll in the industry.

There's a place for both, and the sooner we get off the smug "linux doesn't have this problem... so, ner!" attitudes the faster the industry can get on and evolve (I'm still waiting for the day a linux magazine manages to go one single issue without taking a swipe at Microsoft and actually getting down to something constructive).

**Maggy** · 13-08-2003, 20:25

time to unsubscribe.

Incog.

hawkmoon · 13-08-2003, 20:35

Quote:

Originally posted by BenH
So in other words, you cannot give any intelligent counters to the points I raised, I'm a nasty horrible person, and your running away.

No - I just no longer want to argue with a person who questions others abilities and insults them (as you are trying to do again here) to try and prove they are right.

If you do a little research you will see that there are pretty far ranging exploits on pretty much all OS's and many different open and closed source software products.

One pretty serious vulnerability was with SSH and an exploit that would allow a 3rd party to run code with the same privileges as the ssh process.

How about one that affected the Sun RPC XDL library that could lead to the running of arbitrary code.

I suggest you take a look at somewhere like the CVE or CERT a little more often.

Now this is the last I am saying on this as everyone on this thread is getting bored with this, as am I.

hawkmoon · 13-08-2003, 20:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Incognitas
time to unsubscribe.

Incog.

Sorry Incog - didn't intend this to happen.

grum1978 · 13-08-2003, 20:42

Can we please try and keep this on topic as it is an important and informative thread at the moment

I don't think people should have to go through pages of off topic remarks as the thread is getting big enough as it is

hawkmoon · 13-08-2003, 20:43

Quote:

Originally posted by DeadKenny

It's quite funny the split between the unix lovers and microsoft lovers in our company. One bunch are obssessed with cryptic commands that no one else understands, and the others wouldn't touch a command prompt with a barge poll . Still, we're learning off each other and I have to say the unix bunch are adopting a few MS things... because in some cases it makes life a little easier, which is what MS are about. Since adopting unix, many of the MS fans are far more aware of unix and it's roll in the industry.

There's a place for both, and the sooner we get off the smug "linux doesn't have this problem... so, ner!" attitudes the faster the industry can get on and evolve (I'm still waiting for the day a linux magazine manages to go one single issue without taking a swipe at Microsoft and actually getting down to something constructive).

Here Here- I totally agree.

We have Unix, Linux, Win and a few Macsfor page layout, oh and a couple of BSD based equilizers for the website in out network, and the two camps are very slowly starting to mellow to each other as they start learning about the other platforms.

ps. This is definately my last post - as if this continues I'm certain the mods will close the thread.

DeadKenny · 13-08-2003, 20:47

I'll stop now.

BenH · 13-08-2003, 20:47

Quote:

Originally posted by DeadKenny
[B]You guessed wrong

We're talking mission critical here in some cases which is why we have no customers requesting linux support. All the unix platforms are Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, etc. Windows platforms are server level (2000, 2003 server, clusters, etc). Client side is partly whatever runs a browser (yes, we support Mozilla), and 2k/XP for the Windows app.

Interesting, and a little surprised that your not using Bison++. But not at all surprised that no ones requesting linux support. Its a technology thats coming rather than here. Hence the reason merryl lynch has it running on VMware and waiting for the release of 2.6 before deploying it fully. Likewise with the french and german governments

Quote:

We have a strict rule of keeping 3rd party software to a minimum because of the support nightmare we have with them. Open source software has cost a fortune due to the complexities of getting their software fixed. They won't fix it, and why should they when we didn't pay for it and they're not getting paid either, so they expect us to fix it. Commercial software we've used comes with a maintenance contact, one call and a bunch of enthusiastic well paid developers get on the case and a fix can arrive next day. Same with Microsoft if you pay them enough on support, but consider how much it costs a highly paid developer to waste time trying to fix it themselves over many months (trust me, I've suffered the pain).

Nice, if your developing a new product from scratch with only a speculative market and minimal funding, then MS and other closed source vendors couldnt care less so you have to do it yourself, which is impossible with closed source software.

As for the problems with open software, did it never occur to you to pay the developer a few thousand to fix your problems. Its how we got the load balancing program for our thin client solution.

Quote:

Gimp vs Photoshop...

Apart from Photoshop not being specifically "Windows", even Mac users would disagree that Gimp is the choice over Photoshop

.

Though obviously if they're using Photoshop for way under what it's designed for, then there's a cost saving but the same could be said of picking 'Paint' over Photoshop (or even PaintShopPro). All depends what you're using it for, but it's not a fair comparison.

There are apparently things that the GIMP can do that photoshop cant and vice versa. I dont know art software or what they were using it for. Hell I was literally asked 4 hours before they had to make the decision, still the GIMP, currently running under windows but will be switched to linux met their requirements and made them very happy.

[quote]Also you've failed to say why MS marketing department (which lets face it is the real sucess of the company) had NT 5 renamed to 2000...
[quote]

Quote:

Who cares? It's marketing, and an inspired choice. It sold more software and makes me more money.

Good for you, and the answer is because of the utter mess that is NT4. MS Marketing decided to rename it 2000 ( like windiscale became sellafield). They still had, and have still lousy sales. Hence the reason to go ahead with license 6 and why Linux is picking up their losses.

Regards,

Ben

BenH · 13-08-2003, 20:58

Quote:

Originally posted by hawkmoon
No - I just no longer want to argue with a person who questions others abilities and insults them (as you are trying to do again here) to try and prove they are right.

Actually if I wanted to insult you I'd be going for the throat, like your website. At the moment I just want to make sure you dont have the last word.

Quote:

If you do a little research you will see that there are pretty far ranging exploits on pretty much all OS's and many different open and closed source software products.

I know this, I have told you I know this and given you reasons to why Linux is more secure, which you have ignored to continue repeating the above like a mantra.

Quote:

One pretty serious vulnerability was with SSH and an exploit that would allow a 3rd party to run code with the same privileges as the ssh process.

There are two exploits still for this, neither are publically known and work is being done to resolve them, and you do not have to have a ssh server running on a linux or unix box, nor a telnet or web or ftp. NONE are enabled by default.

Quote:

How about one that affected the Sun RPC XDL library that could lead to the running of arbitrary code.

Could and Might play a large part in your vocab dont they.

Quote:

I suggest you take a look at somewhere like the CVE or CERT a little more often.

I do, difference is that I understand them and the threat that they pose to my machines. As I said to deadkenny, $100,000 prize if you can break the firewall that we use.

Quote:

Now this is the last I am saying on this as everyone on this thread is getting bored with this, as am I.

You've already said this once.