*MERGED* Militant Cyclists & Joggers

[basa]

Originally Posted by peachey

do you reckon they
should give mothers proficiency tests with
pushchairs

as they are always shoving them into <snip> the road between parked cars

my advice - take care with the pushchair
especially at this time of year - lots of ankles around

Round my way they push them into the road because the ignorant car drivers are parked on the bloody pavement so you cant get a bloody pushchair past them (I 'key' those cars !!!)

[peachey]

Originally Posted by basa

I 'key' those cars !!!

charming behaviour

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by basa

If he could 'whack' your car as you passed.....YOU WERE TOO CLOSE !!!!!!!!

It's difficult enough cycling in this weather, rain blinds you, gusty wind causes you to wobble, glass in the gutter (which is where we have to cycle !) causes you to avoid it, not to mention those 'local govt workers' who pull right over to the kerb when a car is turning right in front so you can't get past. Yeh like they are gonna get through !!

Sorry, but if the weather conditions are bad enough to affect your ability to control your bike, then you should not be out riding, no excuse.
If you don't have a vehicle that can cope with this weather, then take the bus, hire a taxi, or walk.
Going out knowing you will not be able to handle your vehicle in a normal manner because of the weather conditions is highly irresponsible!

If a car is too close to the pavement for you to get past, then you simply have to wait for them to move, it's not that hard to comprehend is it?



Cyclists always amaze me when they go on congestion protests and invade brighton. I think the irony is lost on them as they cause brighton to grind to a halt with the congestion they cause, not to mention the accidents as they are all over the place, changing lanes without without hand signals, kicking cars should they dare to turn left, even if they've been indicating for the past minute!

[basa]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Sorry, but if the weather conditions are bad enough to affect your ability to control your bike, then you should not be out riding, no excuse.
If you don't have a vehicle that can cope with this weather, then take the bus, hire a taxi, or walk.
Going out knowing you will not be able to handle your vehicle in a normal manner because of the weather conditions is highly irresponsible!

Your arrogance is breathtaking !! So I should walk if the weather is bad ?? Try telling that to lorry drivers whose vehicles weave and swerve on the motorway in high winds. Do you leave your car at home when the roads are icy ?? The point is you should give cyclists enough room anyway...READ the Highway Code !! You are NOT the only road users..cyclists like pedestrians have a legitimate right to go about their business. Get real !

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If a car is too close to the pavement for you to get past, then you simply have to wait for them to move, it's not that hard to comprehend is it?

More arrogance ! How arrogant is it to impede a cyclist, who remember has to PEDDLE to get along. Why pull in to the kerb in a pitifully vain attempt to pass where nothing wider than a bike can get through ?? That is plain and simple ignorance and lack of care for others. Many, many times I have had to brake hard or swerve just because motorists fail to acknowlege even my presence.

I suppose I should wait for a gap in the traffic before I overtake parked vehicles ?? Why do ignorant and arrogant drivers like you think you own the road ?? I pay VED just like everyone else.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Cyclists always amaze me when they go on congestion protests and invade brighton. I think the irony is lost on them as they cause brighton to grind to a halt with the congestion they cause, not to mention the accidents as they are all over the place, changing lanes without without hand signals, kicking cars should they dare to turn left, even if they've been indicating for the past minute!

It obviously amazes you they are even allowed on the road !!! The irony is far from lost...they are trying to make a valid point that it is vehicles...too many of them...that cause congestion. Drivers going to collect their morning papers, mothers taking kids to school, single drivers going to work. THEY should all take the bus or walk, oh, or even CYCLE !! Oh and btw just because a car indicates to turn left it doesn't give them the right to carve up a cyclist whilst doing it .. they should slow down and turn behind the cycle not over it !!! I've had loads indicating as they pass me and just turn !!!

I'd better sign off now as I'm losing my temper !!

[Nor]

I'm a driver and a cyclist. Its kinda wierd but the feelings I have when I'm in my car I hate cyclists and when I'm on my bike I hate car drivers. Being extreme to make a point but I'll explain in abit.

I agree with alot of what people have said earlier. As a cyclist I agree with us having to pass proficiency tests, getting insurance and licences and mot's. I don't think we should pay road fund licence though as we should be encouraging more people to cycle. There needs to be an incentive to cycle and to put severe financial obstacles in the way won't do that.

When I'm in my car I see things from a drivers perspective. I see cyclists going through red lights, I see them bashing wing mirrors as they squeeze up the inside at traffic lights. I see them fly off pavements accross roads and go up one way streets the wrong way. As a car driver I've parked up at red lights close to the kerb to prevent bikes getting past. My thinking is I'd rather he was behind me as that way he'll not scratch my paint (which I can't do anything about) when he tries to sqeeze past. Plus when I turn left at the lights I won't have him ****ing about going straight on coming up my inside. The fact is many cyclists are dangerous and shouldn't be on the road.

When I'm on my bike I see things from a cyclists perspective. I see cars going through red lights, I see cars turning left in front of me, I see cars pulling out of junctions right in front of me, I see cars passing me so close that the wing mirrors fractionally miss me, I see car drivers shouting abuse at me cos it takes them longer to get past. The fact is many drivers are dangerous and shouldn't be on the road.

So.... my point I guess is that the roads are full of people who shouldn't be on it. Its all very well saying cyclists should be tested and given mot's but the fact is drivers have to pass a test and they are loads of them who are still dangerous. Having a test won't work, it has to be a good test. Drivers have to be tested properly too and the current driving test is far too easy, add to that that people only get tested once and then drive for the rest of their life.

Being both a driver and cyclist I like to think I'm able to be objective about things on the road. As a cyclist I try never to go through red lights, don't sneak up the inside of cars and try to go straight in the road as opposed to weaving in and out of parked cars. I try to be the cyclist I'd like to overtake if I was a driver. As a driver I try and give cyclists loads of room, understand that its difficult for them to get into the right hand lane to turn when they are in a slow vehicle. The one thing I do as a cyclist which I shouldn't is go on the pavement. Its only briefly though travelling through underpasses to get onto another road or the little bit of pavement just before going into a park. I know I shouldn't but it really is too much hassle to get off the bike whenever you want to go into a park or cross between 2 roads. I try to be cognizant of pedestrians though and always give them the right of way. If there are any elderly people I'll make sure I stop way away from them and let them past safely giving them a smile and a hello.

What I'd like to see though is people being objective. There are bad cyclists out there and bad drivers and we can't just blame one party. Ideally we should all be cycling as its good for us and good for the environment. What I'd like to see though is quiter roads, because only those who've passed stringent tests are able to drive, not just every tom dick and harry who can afford a cheapo banger. Moral of the story is test cyclists and re-test drivers. Every 5 years make people resit their driving tests. Will create more jobs, reduce congestion, reduce accidents and better still those people who are driving on our roads are those who are best equipped to do so.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by basa

Your arrogance is breathtaking !! So I should walk if the weather is bad ?? Try telling that to lorry drivers whose vehicles weave and swerve on the motorway in high winds. Do you leave your car at home when the roads are icy ?? The point is you should give cyclists enough room anyway...READ the Highway Code !! You are NOT the only road users..cyclists like pedestrians have a legitimate right to go about their business. Get real !

Pot to kettle!
Yes, if drivers of high sided vehicles drive in such a manner that wind causes them to weave over the road then they should be pulled over and charged with dangerous driving. Lorry drivers are taught that in such conditions you SLOW DOWN and therefore sidewinds are easier to deal with, negating the danger.
If the weather is too bad to cycle safely under control, then yes you should walk, isn't that simple common sense?
If the roads are icy, or wet from rain, then I drive slow enough to negate the danger, ensuring I leave more than enough space between myself and the vehicle in front.
If the roads are too icy to drive (which living near the sea is rare) then I will not drive.

Yes cars should give cyclists the same amount of space they give other vehicles, I give at least 1.5 door lengths when over taking, but if a driver feels they need to move over to the pavement before turning right, which *boo-hoo* holds you up for 5 seconds, well tough!

Originally Posted by basa

I suppose I should wait for a gap in the traffic before I overtake parked vehicles ?? Why do ignorant and arrogant drivers like you think you own the road ?? I pay VED just like everyone else.

If you a cycling along with the traffic, overtaking you (or perhaps not as many of my cyclist friends are able to cruise at 30mph), and you spot a parked car up ahead, well you look over your shoulder as a safety check, give a hand signal (no not two fingers!) showing that you intend to pull out, repeat the safety check, move out and over take (you know, I'm sure cyclits are taught this as part of their proficiency test)
What has VED got to do with it? Don't tell me your one of those "I pay my taxes I can do what I like" people?

Originally Posted by basa

It obviously amazes you they are even allowed on the road !!! The irony is far from lost...they are trying to make a valid point that it is vehicles...too many of them...that cause congestion. Drivers going to collect their morning papers, mothers taking kids to school, single drivers going to work. THEY should all take the bus or walk, oh, or even CYCLE !!

See? The irony is lost
Congestion in brighton isn't too bad UNTIL the cyclists invade!
Of course if they adheared to the highway code then they probably wouldn't cause so much congestion, but most of them aren't, they're all over the place, without signalling, ignoring vehicles's indicators etc.

Originally Posted by basa

Oh and btw just because a car indicates to turn left it doesn't give them the right to carve up a cyclist whilst doing it .. they should slow down and turn behind the cycle not over it !!! I've had loads indicating as they pass me and just turn !!!

Drivers who can't wait the few extra seconds following a bike for it to go past the junction before they turn and decide to over take, then swerve across the path of the cyclist have no excuse, but I wasn't talking about those gits.
I've been in a lane of slow moving traffic, seen a car in front indicating to turn left, only to have a cyclist fly past on the inside. Thankfully the motorist did check his mirror and hit the brakes, only to have the cyclist (who didn't see/ignored the indicators) hurl a load of abuse!

I have been both cycalist and driver.It's hard competing with a lorry or bus at a junction-it's the one reason I gave up cycling.The drivers always seemed to go out of their way to cut me up.

Anyway that wasn't the point I wanted to raise.
In Gosport and it's boroughs there are very many cycle ways and off road cycle paths provided by the local taxpayers.
What gets up my nose as a driver is that there are always one or two twerps who INSIST on riding in the road when they have a beautiful newly laid cyclepath 5 metres to their left.WHY? It's usually the dayglo clad speed nitwit who is guilty of this.

I can't help thinking that if such cycleways are provided then it should be manditory for cyclists to use 'em.Otherwise why am I paying for the fecking things?

No it's not just for the kids to use to and from school it's for everyone you morons.You pay for it ,I pay for it.SO damn well use it-it's in a much better condition than the gutter you are insisting on using.

Sorry rant over.

Incog.

[Xaccers]

You mean like the cycleways along the A32 which shortly after they created, the council came along and resurfaced the road so the cycle lanes had to be re-done?
That amazed me!

Anyway, I totally agree with you, if cycle lanes are available, then they should be mandatory for cyclists.

Some very interesting points raised in this thread. I was very impressed with Nor's dual perspective, especially. I also both drive & cycle (cycle every day to work & back in all weathers) & sympathise with both cyclists & drivers. The thing is we all owe each other a duty of care - the cyclist should make sure they are visible & respect the fact that in an 'argument' with a vehicle, they will come off worse, the driver should respect that bikes are inherently vulnerable & give them space.

As for cycle lanes, I am all for them if they are separate from the road, while taking Incog's point that if provided, they should be used. However, the cycle lanes that have been incorporated into existing roads are a waste of space in my opinion, especially the ones that allow parking in them - and inevitably some people park in the ones where they shouldn't - which means the road has effectively been narrowed & is more dangereous than if the lane wasn't there.

I have cycled to work for about the last 25 years, both here & in London (try the Rotherhithe Tunnel sometime - you HAVE to go on the pavement in there, there is no room for two cars & a bike in such a narrow space) and have survived without major incident, so far, so I can't be doing too much wrong. But I have seen some horrific behaviour from both cyclists & drivers in that time - so neither group should be complacent!

Gaz

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

I can't help thinking that if such cycleways are provided then it should be manditory for cyclists to use 'em.Otherwise why am I paying for the fecking things?

No it's not just for the kids to use to and from school it's for everyone you morons.You pay for it ,I pay for it.SO damn well use it-it's in a much better condition than the gutter you are insisting on using.

Sorry rant over.

Incog.

Agreed, but within reason

There's quite a few cycle paths (psychopaths?) here in Nottingham, but not all of them are equally usable. I know one place where they painted half the foot path red, to indicate it is a cycle path. Thing is, the original foot path was not very wide, and has a tree every 20 yards or so. The red cycle path is not much wider than the trees, so it is interrupted every 20 yards, and you have to swerve onto the foot path to avoid crashing into the tree What nutter has thought that up???

Originally Posted by danielf

Agreed, but within reason

There's quite a few cycle paths (psychopaths?) here in Nottingham, but not all of them are equally usable. I know one place where they painted half the foot path red, to indicate it is a cycle path. Thing is, the original foot path was not very wide, and has a tree every 20 yards or so. The red cycle path is not much wider than the trees, so it is interrupted every 20 yards, and you have to swerve onto the foot path to avoid crashing into the tree What nutter has thought that up???

Agreed that's terrible.
However I'm talking about some brand new purpose built, less than a year old cycle tracks that are off road.Gosport has a whole lot of them,most of which are placed along the old railway trackways.They are more than wide enough for pedestrians and cyclists and most are very pleasant to ride along.I used to use them myself with a child strapped in the child seat on the back.It was a good way to get around.I just don't understand why the macho types won't use 'em.


Incog.

[Pritch]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Agreed that's terrible.
However I'm talking about some brand new purpose built, less than a year old cycle tracks that are off road.Gosport has a whole lot of them,most of which are placed along the old railway trackways.They are more than wide enough for pedestrians and cyclists and most are very pleasant to ride along.I used to use them myself with a child strapped in the child seat on the back.It was a good way to get around.I just don't understand why the macho types won't use 'em.


Incog.

I don't know what they're like around Gosport, but many of the cycle lanes I've used and/or seen are worse than useless. Not gritted during the winter (fond memories of last winter, going to work sliding along on my arse), covered in waste (glass is a favourite) because they aren't swept clear by the tyres of heavier vehicles as roads are and often full of kamikaze pedestrians and even worse, their dogs, many of whom seem to like the idea of a mouthful of nice muscular calf.

Of course, if you hit the dog that was off its lead and darted out of the bushes into your front wheel, then it's certainly not the owner's fault, is it?

Originally Posted by Pritch

I don't know what they're like around Gosport, but many of the cycle lanes I've used and/or seen are worse than useless. Not gritted during the winter (fond memories of last winter, going to work sliding along on my arse), covered in waste (glass is a favourite) because they aren't swept clear by the tyres of heavier vehicles as roads are and often full of kamikaze pedestrians and even worse, their dogs, many of whom seem to like the idea of a mouthful of nice muscular calf.

Of course, if you hit the dog that was off its lead and darted out of the bushes into your front wheel, then it's certainly not the owner's fault, is it?

Still a better proposition than being knocked down by cars,buses and lorries surely?

Incog.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Sorry, but if the weather conditions are bad enough to affect your ability to control your bike, then you should not be out riding, no excuse.
If you don't have a vehicle that can cope with this weather, then take the bus, hire a taxi, or walk.

Pardon me if I say this is *utter rubbish* and incredibly arrogant as well!

If you are driving in heavy rain or fog, do you give extra distance to the vehicle in front of you in case they stop?

Yes? (If no, well you bloody well should!)

So *WHY* do you appear to think that you should *NOT* give extra room to cyclists in rainy/ windy weather??? *WHY* do you seem to think that cyclists should not get in *your* way and if they might, they should get off and take some other form of transport instead?!

Going out knowing you will not be able to handle your vehicle in a normal manner because of the weather conditions is highly irresponsible!

Do you think that car drivers should not drive in the rain or snow or fog? Braking distances are increased, visibility is decreased, steering may be affected. All of those mean that "you will not be able to handle your vehicle in a normal manner", so maybe *you* should get out and walk too...!!!

Cyclists always amaze me when they go on congestion protests and invade brighton. I think the irony is lost on them as they cause brighton to grind to a halt with the congestion they cause,

I think the irony (not to mention the point) is lost on *you*!!!

Just *how many* cyclists do you see there? Now imagine that they were, instead, in cars, (one to a vehicle!!) and consider just how much *more* space they would take up!

I once saw some pictures a cycle protest where they'd rigged some bikes with metal frames that were the equivalent size of a standard car. It clearly demonstrated how you could easily fit *at least* six cycles in the same space that *one* car driver regularly uses!!

not to mention the accidents as they are all over the place, changing lanes without without hand signals, kicking cars should they dare to turn left, even if they've been indicating for the past minute!

Thus speaks someone who has most probably never ridden a bike in traffic and has never had someone *WITHOUT INDICATING* turn left, directly across the front of them, requiring rapid avoiding action or an emergency stop to avoid getting a face full of car!

And as for "changing lanes without signals" I suggest next time you're out, you see how many *car drivers* indicate properly when they undertake that manoevure and remember that *they* are surrounded by a tonne of metal that's going to cause a lot more damage than a bicycle.

Originally Posted by Incognitas

In Gosport and it's boroughs there are very many cycle ways and off road cycle paths provided by the local taxpayers.
What gets up my nose as a driver is that there are always one or two twerps who INSIST on riding in the road when they have a beautiful newly laid cyclepath 5 metres to their left.WHY? It's usually the dayglo clad speed nitwit who is guilty of this.

I can't help thinking that if such cycleways are provided then it should be manditory for cyclists to use 'em.Otherwise why am I paying for the fecking things?

I've not cycled in Grotspot (sorry, Gosport! ) but my experience of Portsmouth's cycle lanes has often been less than positive.

Many of them appear to be designed with the sole purpose of getting cyclists out of the way of car drivers, rather than being of any actualy *use* to cyclists.

Sharing a cycle path with pedestrians who wander around onto the cyclists half might be alright if you're a granny who pedals at 4mph, but I (and a lot of other riders) go a lot faster than that, so it's actually safer to ride with the traffic!

Often cycle lanes are blocked by car drivers who think they're an extra parking space, very often they're full of grit, broken glass and any other crud on the road because they're not cleaned sufficiently often.

Frequently car drivers don't even *acknowledge* the presence of the cycle lane and treat it as an additional piece of road to squeeze past traffic. They also stop at red lights in the purple "box" that is clearly marked for *cyclists* to use so they can turn across the line of traffic more safely because they don't have to dodge cars that come whizzing past them.

And then they have those stupid signs saying "Cyclists Dismount". Why not just put up one that says "Car drivers: get out and push!"

If you want to make cycle paths compulsory to use, make them bloody useful!