The big question.. NTL or ADSL? - Page 3

etccarmageddon · 09-06-2006, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtwn

Don't carry on with that unless you want egg on your face in the future

I expect it will happen but it wont be soon. (the 30meg option) anyone can start a rumour saying there will be 30meg cos speeds are bound to increase the difficult question is when.

FusionXN1 · 09-06-2006, 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu038

Sorry mate but I think you need to read up a bit on contention ratios

Your quote states

The operative words here are one unit of data capacity. Not one fibre
A single fibre can feed between 200 and 600 homes. Going on an estimated penetration of 25% thats between 50 and 150 other customers. The bandwidth laid down by the DOCCIS protocols are 27MB on the Langely platform or 36MB on the Bromley platform. In simple terms that's per fibre or as we said that 50 to 150 other customers. Contention ratios aren't anywhere as simple as that though but I don't want to take away the wonders of google for you

Another thing to remember is not to confuse network bandwidth with upload or download speeds. Oh and never believe the media

In answer to your original question working for em I'm biased but personally I've had less problems over the last few years than most of my mates who are on BT or the various other providers

I didn't mean that! Why would i mean that? If I know London now has the most fibre in the world as it carries data from europe to US etc... Why would I mean 1 fibre? (that was in a news article a few months back!) Sorry for mixed signals..

What I mean is according to custom pc.. One street shares an allocated bandwidth margin. And compared to ADSL you have your own dedicated line to the exchange THEN it's 50:1 were as ntl aim for 20:1.

EDIT: Thought i would add they say:

DOCCIS1.0 is 54mb per street
DOCCIS1.1 is higher but im moving so i dont have the mag out no more can't check. Anyway not to take this off track.. would like to know if anyone has moved from bt to ntl and glad they did it?

Chrysalis · 09-06-2006, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtwn

Don't carry on with that unless you want egg on your face in the future

ummm, I am not scared of having egg on my face dude.

I am reading people saying ntl do this and that.

then surprise surprise there is no proof.

the 30mbit romour seems to have started on nthell.co.uk then suddenly people saying things like inside source etc.

my cost cutting of course is based on facts from news reports that they have 250million pound savings to make.

---------- Post added at 07:40 ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 ----------

right so there is a url stating 20:1 then but it seems old and out of date. Interesting since I find it hard to believe that 10meg and 4meg is 20:1 or under.

---------- Post added at 07:46 ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu038

Sorry mate but I think you need to read up a bit on contention ratios

Your quote states

The operative words here are one unit of data capacity. Not one fibre
A single fibre can feed between 200 and 600 homes. Going on an estimated penetration of 25% thats between 50 and 150 other customers. The bandwidth laid down by the DOCCIS protocols are 27MB on the Langely platform or 36MB on the Bromley platform. In simple terms that's per fibre or as we said that 50 to 150 other customers. Contention ratios aren't anywhere as simple as that though but I don't want to take away the wonders of google for you

Another thing to remember is not to confuse network bandwidth with upload or download speeds. Oh and never believe the media

In answer to your original question working for em I'm biased but personally I've had less problems over the last few years than most of my mates who are on BT or the various other providers

Thanks for the info stu, I have noticed since I moved tho, BT have problems with distance they will need to rectify sooner or later, I got 1.8km straight line distance which of course will be longer for actual distance so I am expecting something around 4meg max burst speed on adsl assuming 3-4km line distance and good quality line. So I know ADSL isnt always better and likewise cable isnt always better, this guys distance from the exchange is incredibly short which is why I reccomended LLU should he be able to get it.

etccarmageddon · 09-06-2006, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

right so there is a url stating 20:1 then but it seems old and out of date.

I disagree that the url appears to be out of date but I do think it's bull**** - I cant believe 20:1 is still the rule.

James Henry · 09-06-2006, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by FusionXN1

I didn't mean that! Why would i mean that? If I know London now has the most fibre in the world as it carries data from europe to US etc... Why would I mean 1 fibre? (that was in a news article a few months back!) Sorry for mixed signals..

What I mean is according to custom pc.. One street shares an allocated bandwidth margin. And compared to ADSL you have your own dedicated line to the exchange THEN it's 50:1 were as ntl aim for 20:1.

EDIT: Thought i would add they say:

DOCCIS1.0 is 54mb per street
DOCCIS1.1 is higher but im moving so i dont have the mag out no more can't check. Anyway not to take this off track.. would like to know if anyone has moved from bt to ntl and glad they did it?

Custom don't have a clue what they're talking about so I'd ignore them. DOCSIS 1.1 is no faster for download than DOCSIS 1.0, the only difference in raw bandwidth between them is that it requires the devices either end of the connection to support a higher bandwidth on the upload (10.24Mbit line rate per upstream instead of the 5.12Mbit required under DOCSIS1.0), whereas this is optional in DOCSIS 1.0.

The numbers they quote 'per street' are also nonsense.

As previously stated however it's per fibre node not per street, multiple streets can be combined together at the fibre node so that 27 / 38 / 51Mbit can be shared between several cabinets across several streets.

Just to make things even more complicated fibre nodes can also be 'combined' (would be more accurate to say a single downstream signal is split between nodes) so that the single 27 / 38 / 51Mbit downstream bandwidth is spread between multiple nodes and from there multiple 'streets'.

Just to make things yet more complicated you can shove multiple 27 / 38 / 51Mbit downstreams down each service control group, however in most cases it's just a single downstream.

FusionXN1 · 09-06-2006, 14:29

Ok then will do! So NTL yay or nay?

etccarmageddon · 09-06-2006, 15:31

you have to make the decision based on what people have said here.

popper · 09-06-2006, 18:58

i wonder if we will ever see something like this in the near future.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1972495,00.asp
"
learned about FiOS, or Fiber to the Premises (FTTP), almost a year ago. It's not a new technology. Fiber-optic cable has been around for decades, but it's only in the last year or so that Verizon created the FiOS program and began running fiber to consumers' doorsteps. Fiber offers speeds that beat cable and make DSL look like dialup. It's the next big thing in broadband."

FusionXN1 · 09-06-2006, 20:58

FTTH? (Fiber to the home?) Thats great! I want! Any plans for the UK? NTL could easy do it...

carlingman · 10-06-2006, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by FusionXN1

FTTH? (Fiber to the home?) Thats great! I want! Any plans for the UK? NTL could easy do it...

NTL have already dabbled in this many years ago where they supplied FTTH.

Done as a trial to the big wigs MPs mainly in a posh appartment block in Westminster.

See post 55 here http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...hlight=dolphin

popper · 10-06-2006, 03:05

like i said
i wonder if we will ever see something like this in the near future.

FusionXN1 · 10-06-2006, 14:36

Hope we get it

Stuart · 10-06-2006, 15:11

I would be surprised if we did. It would cost billions to lay fiber to every house and NTL dont have enough cash to enable digital tv to all areas, which is much cheaper.

AbyssUnderground · 10-06-2006, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C

I would be surprised if we did. It would cost billions to lay fiber to every house and NTL dont have enough cash to enable digital tv to all areas, which is much cheaper.

What about Ethernet to home? Im sure a bit of ethernet cable capable of 1Gbps isnt going to cost as much as fibre. Only the replacement hardware would be the major cost.

Chrysalis · 10-06-2006, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

I disagree that the url appears to be out of date but I do think it's bull**** - I cant believe 20:1 is still the rule.

It was easy to judge it out of date since its judgements on ADSL are based on outdated info, BT no longer state a contention ratio.

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

If I am not mistaken ethernet to home requires some sort of fibre rollout, you cannot have copper on part of the route.

No doubt someone will correct me soon