Speed Increases 1st June - 2meg to 4meg

[darkone338]

Originally Posted by ikthius

show me

ik

http://globix.com/network/access/

thats who I have in the company I work for. 100% SLA @ 10mbit and we get 10mbit all day long.

Another we have used is http://www.uk.clara.net/claraaccess/...ines/index.php

You would have to contact each individual ISP to get prices tho, as they are dependant on your location, but the distance from the exchange makes no difference at all.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:19 ----------

and another...

http://www.verizonbusiness.com/uk/pr...ated/index.xml

[tubbles]

I am sorry to jump back to the argument and, I could be wrong but, if the woman/man on CS said he was putting someone on to the 4mb service, would that be because they have changed all the billing services now and there is actually NO 2mb service now. I do realise that we are ALL still on 2mb but it may be a case of computer says nooooo.

I remember the last upgrade did something like that (another free upgrade btw). If this is the case i hope that it will ease some peoples minds and everbody just chill.

[chrisjones]

Obviosuly, some people have picked up the 'I want 4 meg' message, as just another person wanting today what has been promised by the 30th - and some have gone for the light-hearted comment.

Personally, I like 'like-heartedness' - it sometimes diffuses situations, and does not often result in a worse position, but in some cases in can. Your comments seem to suggest for you, in this particular time, the latter is the result. That is the problem with written statements, they can often be miss-interpretted. You can't beat good old fashion body language.

.. Thats more like it...

Seriously tho - Niether I nor anyone else (im hoping) was out to upset anyone...

ok END of..

Tubbles - thats a good theory, in-which case it would be the system thats lying, not the poor old CS OP trying to do his/her job as best as.

[ikthius]

Originally Posted by darkone338

http://globix.com/network/access/

thats who I have in the company I work for. 100% SLA @ 10mbit and we get 10mbit all day long.

Another we have used is http://www.uk.clara.net/claraaccess/...ines/index.php

You would have to contact each individual ISP to get prices tho, as they are dependant on your location, but the distance from the exchange makes no difference at all.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:19 ----------

and another...

http://www.verizonbusiness.com/uk/pr...ated/index.xml

so are you looking for access to the net for your business?

as all of your links were for business users.

ik

[MagicMan]

Sorry to jump in but all the prices you will have seen will be for businesses as that kind of connection is usually not intended for the home market. Sure, if you have the money, I'm sure any business would sell you that kind of connection but they wouldnt offer it to you as a matter of course.

Where I work, we have 4Mb and 6Mb leased line circuits to the internet, I believe those cost us around £1000 p/m for the pair. I have also recently commissioned 10Mb circuits between three sites and I can tell you that the installation rate was around £9000 per line (BT Wholsesale pricing) but that is based on a fixed private circuit over fibre.

SDSL however I have found is priced similiarly but without the huge install fee - Bulldog offer half-decent pricing but leased lines are much more stable (and costly).

[darkone338]

Originally Posted by ikthius

so are you looking for access to the net for your business?

as all of your links were for business users.

ik

My original post said any "business arm of an ISP" and you asked me to show you..... If you can afford it, you can get one installed at home...

I'm not looking for a line, as I'm already happy with my 10mb at home with all its quirks, as I know what it costs to have my 100% stable 10mb line at work. Its only listed on their business services page, cos 99.9% of home users would never be able to afford it.

[Retrovertigo]

Originally Posted by tubbles

I am sorry to jump back to the argument and, I could be wrong but, if the woman/man on CS said he was putting someone on to the 4mb service, would that be because they have changed all the billing services now and there is actually NO 2mb service now. I do realise that we are ALL still on 2mb but it may be a case of computer says nooooo.

I remember the last upgrade did something like that (another free upgrade btw). If this is the case i hope that it will ease some peoples minds and everbody just chill.

There is obviously no doubt that that's exactly what happened to me when I spoke to someone. The frustration comes when you know it's a simple fix. I would have thought that some kind of status page showing the regions and order they were due the upgrades, would save both NTL and their customers a whole lot of hassle?

I think what gets people annoyed is the not knowing part. Or that maybe their area was upgraded, but for some reason their modem didn't receive the upgrade. At least then you have some point of reference.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie

I think the concern maybe that now NTL have stated "up to" they have free reign to mess about with the speeds any way they see fit and use the "up to" clause to justify it. This could include the traffic shaping many have voiced concerns over too.

Also, what happens when you are "upgraded" and your speed drops to less than the 2mb speed you were originally on while still paying the same price of £24.99, what do we do then when they have the "up to" clause to wave in your face?

NTL really had to change their tier descriptions from the 1MB, 2Mb, etc and quote them all as "up to" because of the way the internet works and the expectations of some customers. The speed at which you can download something is governed by many factors, not just the limit set by the configuration file that your modem is using. How many times do you see "I pay for a 10Mb service but get nothing like that"? Whether you can get it depends on factors such as the speed at which the other party can upload to you, the contention on the various networks that the data has to pass through and what every other customer on your UBR is doing.

In the early days of cable broaband there were relatively few customers on fairly low speeds. In the main customers tended to get 100% of the advertised speed. As the number of broadband customers worldwide has increased rapidly and speeds have been substantially increased at the same time then the ability to sustain maximum speed has gone. In the future as speeds get faster still then it will become even less likely that anything like the maximum speeds will be attainable.

Using "up to" is not a cop out by NTL but more a true reflection of what speeds on high speed home broadband connections are achievable.

[etccarmageddon]

too much fuss here - there's only roughly 3 weeks to go - why not save the fuss until next month. currently they are on target so what's the problem.

[Retrovertigo]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

NTL really had to change their tier descriptions from the 1MB, 2Mb, etc and quote them all as "up to" because of the way the internet works and the expectations of some customers. The speed at which you can download something is governed by many factors, not just the limit set by the configuration file that your modem is using. How many times do you see "I pay for a 10Mb service but get nothing like that"? Whether you can get it depends on factors such as the speed at which the other party can upload to you, the contention on the various networks that the data has to pass through and what every other customer on your UBR is doing.

In the early days of cable broaband there were relatively few customers on fairly low speeds. In the main customers tended to get 100% of the advertised speed. As the number of broadband customers worldwide has increased rapidly and speeds have been substantially increased at the same time then the ability to sustain maximum speed has gone. In the future as speeds get faster still then it will become even less likely that anything like the maximum speeds will be attainable.

Using "up to" is not a cop out by NTL but more a true reflection of what speeds on high speed home broadband connections are achievable.

While in principle you are probably right. Wouldn't it be better to give everyone as close a speed as possible? Even if this means artficially restricting speeds for some people?

If I buy food by the pound, I expect to get what I pay for. I don't expect to get 2 pounds of potatoes, while someone next to me gets 4 pounds but pays the same price.

I don't believe that NTL are incapable of knowing what the network can handle speed wise, versus the maximum number of people who might want it.

For me that is what is most annoying. Maybe a fairer system would be for them to monitor what speeds people get and charge them accordingly? It may be too complicated to implemnet - I have no idea - but it seems they can monitor gig usage per month so speed shouldn't be any different. Kind of like a gas or electricity meter I guess. But as an example you can build different Sky packages depending on what channels you require.

Maybe if speeds were tallied once a month and charge either at 5,6,7 up to 10meg and with maybe £1-2 difference between each tier.

Ok, probably a nightmare to control. But the alternative is that some here are getting as low as 3 meg on a 10 meg line. That's a huge discrepency between best and worst cases and indicates that NTL are overstretching themselves in some areas.

For the record these are merely some thoughts bobbing around my head and aren't in anyway me screaming that this is what NTL should be doing tomorrow as soon as they open the offices!!

But I do know that if NTL said to me, "we are sorry but because of contention etc. we can only guarantee 5 megs instead of the usual 10....BUT, we will charge you £30 per month instead of £35. I'd be more than happy doing that.

Oh and just to add. Someone said I never say anything positive about NTL. Well, for me, Tech support have been amazing on occasion. Twice they have needed to visit my house to check my modem in the past year or so. Both times they came within 2 hours of me making a phonecall. That's oustanding I have to say. I doubt many companies could beat that to be honest. Plus they followed up each visit with a phonecall the day after to see if I was happy with the service.

[popper]

looks like enjoymarcus might be the first posted update and he appears to not even know it
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...598#post754598

funny if he is, as its been said that the major stuff happens tuesdays,and less so thursdays, arr well, at least thats progress perhaps......

[Chrysalis]

Regarding the "up to" I think its reaonable to expect full burst in twilight hours every day, as during that time of day no isp should be maxed out, and perhaps a slowdown to around 60% of max burst during peak times. Thats what I would call reasonable. On a 20:1 contended product where the shared bandwidth is at least 4 times the user's burst speed so in this case 40mbit I think this is easily achievable.

The problem with both BT and NTL at current I believe they are contending at way higher then 20:1 probably nearer 50:1 to allow them to sell broadband agressivley and in addition in NTLs case they are not sharing 4x users burst instead its 2.7 in some areas which only have 27mbit. I think if a user is getting sub 2meg speeds on a 10meg burstable line they have every right to complain, they should of course verify it isnt the source server first tho by checking from multiple locations.

Also I wish people would stop spreading the impression that NTL are carefully making sure people get full speeds etc. first, this isnt true as many people found out in the last few upgrades, why would ntl suddenly change their policy now? Dont be at all surprised if you go from a solid 2mbit connection to a variable 4mbit connection. Also 10 meggers dont be surprised that once these upgrades are complete you suffer slower speeds.

[Retrovertigo]

Actually Chrysalis makes a very good point there. It seems NTL struggle to maintain 10meg for a fair few people - and that's just the folks who are knowledgable about these things. Once they start to roll out 4megs as a standard you can't help but feel that those on 10meg (with speed problems) might feel the pinch even more than they do at the moment.

My area is a haven for students and NTL vans have been an almost permanent fixture where I live since last Sept, when the influx of students happens. It isn't any coincidence that the speeds in my area (of people I know) are noticeably slower than some people experience.

That's where the true problem lies. Taking on new customers with no regard for whether the infrastructure can handle it. Once everyone here starts being upgraded to 4megs (whether they like it or not) you just know that a stable service will more than likely disappear.

I suppose they are like the water companies at the moment. They want the customers and the cash - but don't want to spend any of it on maintaining the backbone of the company. It will be interesting to see what happens.

*these views are my own thoughts and observations and in no way are indicitive of me demanding anything from NTL as soon as is humanly possible.

[James Henry]

Originally Posted by MagicMan

#

They more than likely do it by MAC address. Its the same with any managed network environment. If you have say a 24 port managed switch and 23 ports have single PC's connected, then you will see just one MAC address per port. If you add another switch or hub to the port 24 and connect 4 PC's to that, then the port will display 4 MAC addresses for that physical port.

Routers aren't switches, a router of any kind running NAT or otherwise will present one MAC address to the rest of the network, its' own interface.

CS have no idea about how many devices are connected behind a NAT router it's possible to work this out but it's not a trivial exercise to say the least.

---------- Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 ----------

Originally Posted by Florence

Last time some was upgraded before their area was ready had problems and some found they was removed back to their old speed. They will not upgrade any until they have resegmented and checked. If you wasn't getting full speed on 10mb then your area would need the work before they can do it.

Its only common sense really. I know this as I have dropped down in speed at peak times which means my area couldn't get the upgrade until they have resegmented and perhaps upgraded..

So if ntl have such control over capacity management why have your speeds at peak time dropped at all? All they can do is guess at the bandwidth demand increase. Resegs can be delayed or just not happen. Rest assured ntl will contend as much as they can get away with, they will be happy to let the network congest until they get too many complaints.

It's really quite bizarre the way that you complain like crazy but still stick up for these guys and continue paying them for a sub-standard service while berating those who seek more competitive deals from the company and those who have deals just thrown at them whether they ask or not. You would presumably refuse to pay a lower rate for your services if they offered it.

As far as ntl go with regards to you and every other residential customer when dealing with them one at a time it's all about mind over matter. They don't mind because you don't matter.

---------- Post added at 09:20 ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Thanks for the explanation on how the TV works on ADSL.

You're welcome.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by MagicMan

#

They more than likely do it by MAC address. Its the same with any managed network environment. If you have say a 24 port managed switch and 23 ports have single PC's connected, then you will see just one MAC address per port. If you add another switch or hub to the port 24 and connect 4 PC's to that, then the port will display 4 MAC addresses for that physical port.

You are talking about standard switches. Something 99% of NTL customers won't have. AFAIK. Routers using NAT do not expose the MAC address of any device inside the network to any device outside it. AT&T did come up with a method that can effectively guess how many devices are attached to a router, but I don't know if there is a precise method.

Edit: Carl got there first.