Where Now For UK Cable?

[Locky]

i think be god for the econmy if we ever got %100 high speed internet coverage, and personaly i wud rather my tax go on sumthing like internet investment rather than the doleys n all the other stuff people get, e.g. free lives

[Dave2150]

Originally Posted by Locky

i think be god for the econmy if we ever got %100 high speed internet coverage, and personaly i wud rather my tax go on sumthing like internet investment rather than the doleys n all the other stuff people get, e.g. free lives

I 100% agree with you - best for tax money to go for something worthfile - eg a Nationwide FTTK deployment instead of all these benefits people get so easily.

[Mr Angry]

I'm all for the "Three R's" myself.

[handyman]

Ntl need to tighten things up. Stick 100% to a pricing plan and communicate this to the userbase. They should then stuff the outsourcing and focus on tight regional based faults and customer service. (why a bloke in swansea would appreciate why its not possible to drag a tech form darlington to Redacr is beyond me).

Back to digital TV, this is uber basic computing gone mad. Interactive services is computing from the early 90's over a different medium. Nothing more complex than that. I stood up for myself the other week stating that one of the key parts of my industry is based on a database. Whilst it is a very complex database its 'just a database' The same thing I learned at college how to do.

Interactive services should be a doddle to create and with ntl's network should far outshine sky. They need to bring things back in house and get some pride in the product they supply or the good staff they have will leave for bettter things.

[Rillington]

I agree that it should but it doesn't and never has. Sky makes things work but ntl never does.

Also, it would be good if ntl didn't increase prices every three months!

[James Henry]

Originally Posted by Locky

i think be god for the econmy if we ever got %100 high speed internet coverage, and personaly i wud rather my tax go on sumthing like internet investment rather than the doleys n all the other stuff people get, e.g. free lives

We have nearly 100% coverage already, some of this has been achieved through limited public - private partnerships.

With all due you're at college and only work weekends, perhaps you'd like to try paying income tax before you complain about where it goes and maybe the rest of us would like it if our taxes weren't paying for part of or all of your education but such is life. I see next to nothing for the over £1000/month that Mr Brown siphons from my pay let alone the other taxes he stings me for, which is why I'm moving elsewhere.

I could easily have the 'up yours' attitude as in theory I'm one of the people who puts money into the economy, and yes I'd be far better off not supporting chavs and layabouts, but I don't as there are some people who really do need that tax. Don't really see why you do especially as you aren't yet one of the people enjoying Mr Brown's hand in your pocket. Quite a cynical attitude really.

Nonetheless the welfare state is there for a reason and I hope you never have to use it but you really never know. If you do have to use it at some point hopefully it'll give you a different appreciation of why it is there. Don't write off everyone who uses it, some people really don't have any choice. When you look at how high tax bills are at the moment supplying an uber internet connection to every home is really poor value, there's a very large list of things that need doing first, such as a nationwide initiative against txt spk and putting some more cash into education in general. Did you know that a number of employers are having problems employing school / college and even uni leavers here? In the words of an employer I spoke to 'We aren't asking for the Earth, just candidates that can read, write and do basic maths to a reasonable standard. Is that too much to ask?'

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Dave2150

I 100% agree with you - best for tax money to go for something worthfile - eg a Nationwide FTTK deployment instead of all these benefits people get so easily.

In what way is that worthwhile exactly? We'll have FTTK within 5 years anyway. FTTH is really the only game in town. Incidentally what does worthfile mean?

I have no problem at all with local councils borrowing money in order to build their own fibre optic networks however the idea of the government using tax payer's money and doing it nationwide is a sensationally bad idea. It would put ntl out of business at a stroke and force BT to severely downsize. Then there's the question of who gets to run the network? We know what a great job the Government would do of it. I think they've their nose in quite enough already thanks.

Personally I'd rather the ntl old boys' club at Ofcom let BT build the FTTH network they want to build and not force them to unbundle it in the name of the competition that's set to bring us a huge collection of crap quality services to choose from. If you want to know why we've no FTTH/K look no further than their office.

Just look at what the US allowing Verizon to build a FTTH network without unbundling it has done. Much more competitive offers where it's been rolled out.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Locky

i think be god for the econmy if we ever got %100 high speed internet coverage, and personaly i wud rather my tax go on sumthing like internet investment rather than the doleys n all the other stuff people get, e.g. free lives

remember that next time you lose your job eh or fall ill?

I agree with james henry perhaps the only way I would think it was fair for the government to invest is if straings are attached e.g. 50% of the resulting turnover is recieved as tax income, if the company tries to bail out via bankrupty government takes ownership and all execs to prison for wasting taxpayers cash

[Dave2150]

Originally Posted by James Henry

We have nearly 100% coverage already, some of this has been achieved through limited public - private partnerships.

With all due you're at college and only work weekends, perhaps you'd like to try paying income tax before you complain about where it goes and maybe the rest of us would like it if our taxes weren't paying for part of or all of your education but such is life. I see next to nothing for the over £1000/month that Mr Brown siphons from my pay let alone the other taxes he stings me for, which is why I'm moving elsewhere.

I could easily have the 'up yours' attitude as in theory I'm one of the people who puts money into the economy, and yes I'd be far better off not supporting chavs and layabouts, but I don't as there are some people who really do need that tax. Don't really see why you do especially as you aren't yet one of the people enjoying Mr Brown's hand in your pocket. Quite a cynical attitude really.

Nonetheless the welfare state is there for a reason and I hope you never have to use it but you really never know. If you do have to use it at some point hopefully it'll give you a different appreciation of why it is there. Don't write off everyone who uses it, some people really don't have any choice. When you look at how high tax bills are at the moment supplying an uber internet connection to every home is really poor value, there's a very large list of things that need doing first, such as a nationwide initiative against txt spk and putting some more cash into education in general. Did you know that a number of employers are having problems employing school / college and even uni leavers here? In the words of an employer I spoke to 'We aren't asking for the Earth, just candidates that can read, write and do basic maths to a reasonable standard. Is that too much to ask?'

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------


In what way is that worthwhile exactly? We'll have FTTK within 5 years anyway. FTTH is really the only game in town. Incidentally what does worthfile mean?

I have no problem at all with local councils borrowing money in order to build their own fibre optic networks however the idea of the government using tax payer's money and doing it nationwide is a sensationally bad idea. It would put ntl out of business at a stroke and force BT to severely downsize. Then there's the question of who gets to run the network? We know what a great job the Government would do of it. I think they've their nose in quite enough already thanks.

Personally I'd rather the ntl old boys' club at Ofcom let BT build the FTTH network they want to build and not force them to unbundle it in the name of the competition that's set to bring us a huge collection of crap quality services to choose from. If you want to know why we've no FTTH/K look no further than their office.

Just look at what the US allowing Verizon to build a FTTH network without unbundling it has done. Much more competitive offers where it's been rolled out.

James Henry and I never said that everyone on the welfare was exploiting it because they were lazy - I 100% agree that it is needed and many people rightfully depend on it.

What I dont like is the majority of people who claim job seekers and all sorts of benefits, when they could get a job if they got off their butt to look for one. This debate is way OT, so thats the last I will comment on this.

"We'll have FTTK within 5 years anyway. " - Who will have FTTK in 5 years? Everyone? Where is your data for this?

"Personally I'd rather the ntl old boys' club at Ofcom let BT build the FTTH network they want to build and not force them to unbundle it in the name of the competition that's set to bring us a huge collection of crap quality services to choose from. If you want to know why we've no FTTH/K look no further than their office."

Yeh I 100% agree with you again. I think its really unfair for ofcom to expect BT to invest billions and let people use it for the price ofcom decide.

Surely Ofcom realise that BT will never invest in the local loop unless ofcom give them exclusive use of it?

[Chrysalis]

Locky I was reffering to heh.

---------- Post added at 00:41 ---------- Previous post was at 00:40 ----------

Like you said tho if the 'ntl fanboys' at ofcom allowed BT to rollout fibre suddenly ntl themselves will need to invest and they cant have that.

[Locky]

chrysalis if i lose my job or fall ill i will be ok for a few month at home i have money put aside i will NEVER go onto the dole if that is what you are suggesting i am no scrounger thanks, i duno why you all gota critisize me all the time :/

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Locky

chrysalis if i lose my job or fall ill i will be ok for a few month at home i have money put aside i will NEVER go onto the dole if that is what you are suggesting i am no scrounger thanks, i duno why you all gota critisize me all the time :/

What a comment - I'd reply but it's way OT and I'd get banned!

[Chrysalis]

same

[d0pey]

Originally Posted by James Henry

There we have to disagree.

I'd describe neither cableco as market leader as their premium packages are both slower and more expensive than their ADSL equivalents.

Bulldog's 16Mbit uncapped deal is as available as cable broaband and cheaper.

UKOnline's coverage isn't as high but again faster and cheaper.

Telewest's upstream on their 10Mbit deal is pathetic and needs increasing.

---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 21:11 ----------


Actually a more appropriate point would have been that ntl had just bought out Telewest with how much cash...

Therein lies the problem. They paid 4 billion USD in cash, over a billion in shares and took on a fair whack of assumed debt.

The combined company is now worth 7 billion USD.

Most of the above wasn't cash from the bank, it was debt. Again rather than invest in infrastructure, etc, ntl ****ed away their cash on acquisition.

They need to get the cost reductions going as ntl still aren't a profitable business and they need to get profitable and get investing fairly rapidly.

Of more concern is that some of the things that made Telewest more profitable are being chopped in the name of attracting customers. One particular thing of note being that while Telewest do actually credit check customers and will refuse to install to those who present a risk ntl will quite happily install to anyone regardless. Telewest employees are getting the same targets as ntl ones now, even though they have different criteria. ntl have been known to let people off of arrears on their bills to retain them as customers. Again the figures are everything, apart from the profit column.

---------- Post added at 21:19 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------


Indeed. For now. BT's 'autumn trial' this year is probably going to be VDSL. Then you have the FTTH trials. As I stated above BT will as part of 21CN be trialling deeper fibre into their network.

Worth remembering that while rollouts are 'on the road map' we don't know how the trials are going yet.

Im sorry but UKOnline's service is very very poor and unreliable. It took 3 months to get installed in the first place. Then when I finally got connected it randomly goes down a few times a day with no explaination from them.

I have not heard great things about bulldog either. Just because something is "cheaper and faster" does not mean it is better. I get far better connection speeds from my ntl 10meg connection.

When you convert over to ADSL2+ it also increases your latency. My latency on the cable connection is around 10-20ms all the time.

LLU is possibly the worst thing to happen in terms of UK customer satisfaction. I do not know anyone who is 100% happy with their LLU connection.

As soon as my contract with UKOnline is up im going to shut down the line and just get a 2nd NTL SACM.

---------- Post added at 09:53 ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Locky

chrysalis if i lose my job or fall ill i will be ok for a few month at home i have money put aside i will NEVER go onto the dole if that is what you are suggesting i am no scrounger thanks, i duno why you all gota critisize me all the time :/

What about people who dont have the chance to work and dont have money put aside. Many people loose their jobs through no fault of their own. Look at what is going on at Vauxhalls at the moment. When these people go onto the dole, are they scroungers because they cant find work? Many of them have gone into taxi driving, which is not as well paid! It causes massive problems with local economies.

[James Henry]

I would disagree. My own LLU connection's reliability, speed and uptime has been excellent and ADSL2+ doesn't mean that pings go up automatically, there are different modes.

I would imagine I'm not the only satisfied customer too

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.224.121] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.224.121: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=245
Reply from 212.58.224.121: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=245
Reply from 212.58.224.121: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=245
Reply from 212.58.224.121: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=245

Ping statistics for 212.58.224.121:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 8ms, Average = 7ms

Pings slightly high due to wireless, using the wired takes a ms or so off

Locky is a college student. May I suggest that the gentleman grows up a bit, gets a mortgage, bills, commitments, possibly a family then after actually trying it out tells the rest of us about the real world. A 'bit put aside' doesn't last long when you're paying a grand a month just to keep a roof over your head.

If you lose your job through gross misconduct or quit it you don't get anything. Personally I see no problem with people who've paid thousands in National Insurance getting something back from time to time and find it quite offensive someone who isn't even paying tax telling those of us who do that we are scroungers for having been on the dole. I have been briefly after losing my job, hated having to do it but was told not to be so proud and was required as if I didn't do it I couldn't claim insurance. I guess that makes me a scrounger too.

[d0pey]

Originally Posted by James Henry

Locky is a college student. May I suggest that the gentleman grows up a bit, gets a mortgage, bills, commitments, possibly a family then after actually trying it out tells the rest of us about the real world. A 'bit put aside' doesn't last long when you're paying a grand a month just to keep a roof over your head.

If you lose your job through gross misconduct or quit it you don't get anything. Personally I see no problem with people who've paid thousands in National Insurance getting something back from time to time and find it quite offensive someone who isn't even paying tax telling those of us who do that we are scroungers for having been on the dole. I have been briefly after losing my job, hated having to do it but was told not to be so proud and was required as if I didn't do it I couldn't claim insurance. I guess that makes me a scrounger too.

I can obviously only talk for myself and people I know but obviously there is going to be some satisfied customers, lol.

The guy is obviously an idiot, I didnt realise the full situation before hand either and I thought his post was completely rubbish then.

I have claimed dole before inbetween jobs before and personally do not see any problem with doing it because unlike real scroungers. I had to have paid so much tax and national insurance to be allowed to claim. As you correctly pointed out you can not just go and claim dole anymore like you used to be able to. They want full explainations why you lefts your job, etc. It is then sent off for approval by another advisor before they are willing to give you a penny.

I wonder if he actually knows the cost of living?