In House Techs to TUPE in Sept?

[pol747]

as a telewest install tech the news yesterday came as a shock because it didnt give us any options as to our future. it was "you will be transffered to our outsource partners" (contractors) no chance of redundancy or a move somewhere else. this has been done because it wont cost ntl/telewest a single penny to get rid of its staff and if you dont like the move you can leave, not an option really as if you do will be intentionally unemployed and not able to claim any benefits from anywhere(government or insurance) so we have no choice but go along with it unless you have another job that is!

[tonecold]

ah so they screw over their workforce just as much as their customers?

Originally Posted by tonecold

ah so they screw over their workforce just as much as their customers?

Indeed they do.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by pol747

as a telewest install tech the news yesterday came as a shock because it didnt give us any options as to our future. it was "you will be transffered to our outsource partners" (contractors) no chance of redundancy or a move somewhere else. this has been done because it wont cost ntl/telewest a single penny to get rid of its staff and if you dont like the move you can leave, not an option really as if you do will be intentionally unemployed and not able to claim any benefits from anywhere(government or insurance) so we have no choice but go along with it unless you have another job that is!

I suppose one could say "Welcome to ntl" and "Goodbye"

I'm not being sarcastic with that, It's a sh*t situation. ntl has treated employees very badly over the years, it always seemed to be on an individual basis though. Just after I left they seemed to be forcing t&c changes on some departments that treated them badly, other departments were not experiencing this due to different types of work.

I think ntl management have been very clever using conquer and divide tactics, and now they have this latest deal sealed by offloading you guys they have no groups with strength in numbers to stand up to them.

I wish you and everyone else the best whatever you decide to do.

[monkey2468]

Originally Posted by unlimited

Ntl probably thinks that by doing this it will have less of a bad taste with the customers. Lets face it there would be blue murder if they announced that they were going to make X amount of engineers redundant. This way they know that its not going to be there problem.

NTL will be a management company within 3 years. I am willing to make a bet that within 3 years 90% of there engineering staff with be outsourced.

I totally agree, that seems to be the way its going, roll on! 91 days to go!
I feel sorry for the vast majority of staff who are not offered redundancy (which I think stinks!). I am lucky, (not for loosing my job which I like doing) I have been given the option of redundancy.

[pooky]

hi new on here, im currently an install tech for telewest in the north east and received the news on tupe on friday, was wondering if any telewest service techs have been informed that they are to be tupe'd as well, another point our contractors that we have at the moment can be sent across the whole of the country, im not in a position where i can travel as i commitments at home, im thinking of resigning then taking them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal under these conditions, does any body have any info that can help me cheers and good luck

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by pooky

hi new on here, im currently an install tech for telewest in the north east and received the news on tupe on friday, was wondering if any telewest service techs have been informed that they are to be tupe'd as well, another point our contractors that we have at the moment can be sent across the whole of the country, im not in a position where i can travel as i commitments at home, im thinking of resigning then taking them to a tribunal for unfair dismissal under these conditions, does any body have any info that can help me cheers and good luck

The citizens advice bureau would be the best place to start. Before resigning I would go along and see them first, they will probably book you a free session with a solicitor. To my knowledge ntl have been taken to court for constructive dismissal and unfair dismissal opn a number of occassions, ntl paid out a large amount on one occassion rather then the embarassement due to the unprofessional way they handled the case.

I guess the contracting company you are transferred to are used to the hire and fire mentality, I think there will be a lot of problems with them taking over employees who are used to a bit of long term stability. (I use that loosely) Companies used to consider the effect on their employees due to a takeover/sell-off, but companies like ntl dont seem to care one little bit.

I see to recall that any unfavourable changes to your contract could result in constructive dimissal if it forces you to leave. I would say working away from home would be unfavourable. I made my point many years ago at ntl when they tried to force a shift system, I said "I wouldn't of taken the job if it was shifts" and made it clear I wouldn't work shifts. The big problem is getting everyone to stick together, everyone complained about the threat of shifts, but when a senior manager came they were as quiet as mice, except 2-3 of us.

Its easy to say stick together, but you will probably end up fighting on your own.

http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/monster/empf8.html

The link should provide a starting point.

[pol747]

just anote on taking ntl to a tribunal i dont think you would have much success as the transfer has been done in a way that makes this near impossible. tupe conditions mean that anyone transfering must keep the same benefits and conditions for a set priod of time this can be anything from 3 to 12 months but after that contracts are up for negotiation wich means anything goes. as for working hours our contractors get sent anywhere and are forced to work overtime plus dont forget no paid holidays or sick leave. many omy workmates are ex contractors and this is a real kick in the teeth for them to have to take backward step on the employment ladder

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by pol747

just anote on taking ntl to a tribunal i dont think you would have much success as the transfer has been done in a way that makes this near impossible. tupe conditions mean that anyone transfering must keep the same benefits and conditions for a set priod of time this can be anything from 3 to 12 months but after that contracts are up for negotiation wich means anything goes. as for working hours our contractors get sent anywhere and are forced to work overtime plus dont forget no paid holidays or sick leave. many omy workmates are ex contractors and this is a real kick in the teeth for them to have to take backward step on the employment ladder

I think though, there is a case when the new company changes your terms and conditions. A written contract is binding by both parties, if you dont agree to a new contract that presents sustantial changes and you are forced to leave, it is constructive dismissal.

If you can prove to a court that you received changes to your terms and conditions that were not acceptable or reasonable, there is a strong case.
If for example the existing contract says something like "you are expected to work overtime" and you never have worked overtime, a new company trying to force this issue could be classed as unreasonable.

I have heard of a few cases where I wouldn't consider the employee to have a case at all, however they have won their case in court. I recall a case where a new employer taking over a company stopped overtime, the guy won his case because the saturday overtime had become reasonable practice for x amount of years.

I think the big problem with this issue (transfer) is exactly what you have pointed out about Holidays and Sick pay, ntl employees are entitled to this, and if they are moving into a company where it is not an entitlement that is one of the questions that should be asked.

I wonder if there was any consultation with the affected employees, or was it just steam rollered. unfortunately the bottom line is that ntl is not a viable business, and they have to keep cutting costs to stay out of bankrupcy.

[oldezf]

Please see below, at this stage regardless of what managers have told you guys you can see that as per the company response to the CWU tupe is still only at the proposal stage. It is just NTL/TW have now formally confirmed to staff they are considering it.

BUT don't get your hopes up..........


Hi,

I have reproduced a part of an email received from Telewest on today’s announcement and the incorrect briefings or messages being put out. As there was a highly personal individual element I do not intend to reproduce in its entirety. Members will see that it is not a done deal, however there are no grounds for complacency and it remains to be seen whether the company can be persuaded from making the final decision to outsource.

Regards.

Brian

Brian,

I fear we are going round the usual houses on these kind of announcements, where the managers are saying they've delivered a clear and consistent message and the engineers saying that they've been told that they're going to Avonline, etc. Specific care was taken to put out an announcement that outlined a proposal by the company to outsource the installation business. This is not only subject to consultation but also the company making a definitive call that this is the only viable approach, operationally and financially. This is of course is dependent on other factors such as current contractor price negotiations and then discussions with them about potential outsourcing. I don't think we'll ever get away from people thinking it's a done deal but that's certainly not what was communicated this morning.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by oldezf

Please see below, at this stage regardless of what managers have told you guys you can see that as per the company response to the CWU tupe is still only at the proposal stage. It is just NTL/TW have now formally confirmed to staff they are considering it.

BUT don't get your hopes up..........


Hi,

I have reproduced a part of an email received from Telewest on todayââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s announcement and the incorrect briefings or messages being put out. As there was a highly personal individual element I do not intend to reproduce in its entirety. Members will see that it is not a done deal, however there are no grounds for complacency and it remains to be seen whether the company can be persuaded from making the final decision to outsource.

Regards.

Brian

Brian,

I fear we are going round the usual houses on these kind of announcements, where the managers are saying they've delivered a clear and consistent message and the engineers saying that they've been told that they're going to Avonline, etc. Specific care was taken to put out an announcement that outlined a proposal by the company to outsource the installation business. This is not only subject to consultation but also the company making a definitive call that this is the only viable approach, operationally and financially. This is of course is dependent on other factors such as current contractor price negotiations and then discussions with them about potential outsourcing. I don't think we'll ever get away from people thinking it's a done deal but that's certainly not what was communicated this morning.

As I said, I was told this was almost done for ntl employees before the merger, I understand it was also going to include the in-house service technicians. It was not clear if the regional network techs would be affected by this, but there was "rumours" that they were part of the proposed outsourcing.

The cynical side of me would say it's a done deal, but they have rushed that communication out in an attempt to soften the blow after it has been leaked.

[pol747]

as mentioned this is only a proposal but the cynic in me believes it is a done deal it would be nice to find that the transfer wont happen but im not making any plans just yet. as for service and network techs as far as im aware they are staying inhouse for now unless someone knows different.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by pol747

as mentioned this is only a proposal but the cynic in me believes it is a done deal it would be nice to find that the transfer wont happen but im not making any plans just yet. as for service and network techs as far as im aware they are staying inhouse for now unless someone knows different.

The cynic in me would say, if it is going to happen (service techs) it will happen after they have the install people out of the way.

The cynic in me would say, then it would 'possibly' be followed by the network techs when the fuss has died down.

Theres no way they would attempt it all in one go, from an operational point of view it wouldn't make sense, and from a bad publicity and morale view it wouldn't either.

[pol747]

yes i have to agree that all ntl telewest techs will be outsourced eventually just leaves a bad taste that firms are able to do this with little regard to the lives of those affected

[tonecold]

Originally Posted by Escapee

Theres no way they would attempt it all in one go, from an operational point of view it wouldn't make sense, and from a bad publicity and morale view it wouldn't either.

They have enough bad publicity that they're not doing anything to improve upon, so why would a bit more bother them?