Horrible connection probs

[applez]

Hi folks, first time poster as this is the first prob ive had!

Basically i had my connection dropping every so often there were no service outages that i could see so I started doing some tests

I had 3 pings running

one to my router

one to my modem on the 192.168.1.100 address

one to google

all 3 of these were repeating.

The one to my router remained constant, no loss at all - always returned a good result.
The one to my modem returned a good amount of results but then sometimes dropped the odd ping.
The one to google was rubbish - dropping on and off all the time.

On one occasion the line dropped entirely my computer reported that the lan cable was unplugged and the modem seemed to reboot itself.

Confused by all of this i removed my router, plugged the modem in directly. Left it because i ran out of time.

following evening i ran the same tests, all bar the router one obviously.
The ping to the modem was much worse
the ping to google was god-awful.

The computer reported the network cable was unplugged about 5 times, and the lights on the router went haywire, 5 times..

I also have to mention i work for another isp, but i wont mention whom - there adsl based.

So i called ntl a few times about this.
First guy told me it was a service outage and to call back next week.
Seccond guy suggested it was my network cable even though its been swapped with a few others.
Third guy insisted i needed to be in front of my computer having given him the above raw facts.
Fourth lady said i needed a replacement modem which i thanked her for enthusiastically then got put through to the fifth guy who told me to speak to tech support - i explained i'd been put through to him from someone at tech support and he told me to call back when i was in front of my comp.

So i think i will call again this evening and prey they do swap the modem - it cant be anything else as ive seen it reset itself half a dozen times - correct me if im wrong.

Has anyone else had this prob and what have ntl done about it, how did u get them to get it sorted?

Cheers

oh, and tech support after 8 is god awful - the guy sounded like he was reading his name from a script at which point i hung up.

[agatward]

It may be of use if you post the upstream and downstream SNR and power values (you can get these by logging in to your modem via the web page at 192.168.100.1) - it could be as simple as a dodgy bit of coax between your modem and the cable network, or your power levels are wrong

I've had my ntl:250 reset itself if it sees something dodgy (physical layer) on the cable segment. Luckily the dodginess has been fixed now my local power board have fixed a cable in the road that fed the street lights (and NTL's green box, it seems).

I assume you've done the normal things like replacing the CAT5 cable between the CM and your router?

I've also had no great luck with "tech support" after 8pm. Apparently they can't put calls through to the Swansea call centre at any time, and didn't know what level 2 support was. I find the inability to put calls through hard to believe as I'm reasonably sure they'd be using some sort of enterprise VoIP system for the call centres, so it's not going to cost them any more.

You're lucky they didn't try to tell you your IP stack was corrupted as they did with me many times before I eventually gave up on them and just sat it out and waited until the problem was fixed.

[James Henry]

Hmmm sounds like a local network problem or a problem with the modem, both of which need an engineer visit.

If by some miracle you were to get someone at tech support who actually knew how to use the tools they are provided they'd be able to easily see instability in the connection between you and ntl assuming it's present and send an engineer.

If you listen to everything that you are told about 'area faults', especially from the Indian centre as that seems to be the main culprit, you'd think ntl's networks never actually run as it seems the first thing they say when they don't want to properly troubleshoot is 'area fault'.

ntl - great when it works, God help you when it doesn't.

[applez]

Heres an update
I've reached the end of my tether - tommorow im going to post, email and fax this to ntl in the hope of something being done.

Dear Sir/Madam.

I am writing to express my extreme dissatisfaction with the NTL service, and register a fault.

Around a month ago I started seeing packet loss. I set off a constant ping

(under the command prompt, ping google.com †“t)

I noted that each time I was suffering a slow connection the packet loss was terrible †“ I was getting request timed out every other line †“ sometimes 5 at a time.
It seemed to calm down a day or so after that.

Same thing occurred a little time later †“ this time I removed my router to attempt to get to the bottom of the problem. It still persisted †“ but the problem seemed to sort itself again in time.

Then about a week back, it became so bad that I couldnââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t even open a webpage.

At this point I will mention I work for a major Internet service provider †“ I know what packet loss is, and I know how to fully troubleshoot an internet connection. I know what it is like when an end user hasnââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t performed the necessary diagnostics on their connection to rule out issues at their end. If I ever get a problem, before contacting yourselves at technical support I make certain itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s not related to my setup in any shape or form.

So here are the diagnostics I performed before I even dialed your number.

I set 3 pings off, One to google uk, one to my router and one to my modem on the 192.168.100.1 address.

The ping to my router was constant, never dropped a single packet, flawless.
The ping to the cable modem dropped, but not a massive amount but it would drop its fair share of packets.
The ping to google was abysmal. Dropping packets in massive blocks up to 20 seconds at a time, rendering the viewing of WebPages useless.

Frustrated, I called technical support †“ but I will get back to this further below.

The following day the same thing occurred. I removed my router and then rebooted my computer so it was the only computer attached to the modem.

I resumed my ping tests. The google test remained terrible. The ping to the router got about 5 times worse, dropping very badly quite frequently.
Then to my astonishment †“ my computer said the network cable was unplugged. It doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t take a cisco engineer to figure out that in this case, this can only be caused by a) A removed network cable or b) the device attached to the cable powering off.
If you want to get into real specifics it could be caused by a frayed network cable †“ of course it wasnââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t, as Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢ve tried about 3 others I know to be working fine.
This happened about 5 times, all 5 times I noticed the modem resetting itself, taking extra long to sync back up again.

In an effort to further rule out my setup I used a friends laptop †“ same tests, same results.

So, in my head †“ through elimination by trying every setup I can conceive †“ I have found the connection problems to be with the modem.
How could it be anything else?! It reset itself 5 times in one night!! 5!!!
The piece of equipment I rent from you. If I had the means, I would have bought another then taken it back to the shop once I knew it was related to the old one †“ but cable modems arenâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t as abundant as say, ADSL modems.
So as you can tell, Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢ve explored every avenue before really getting my teeth in and contacting you.

As I previously mentioned, I work for a major UK ISP, in a tech support call centre. I know what it is like when you have someone on the phone and they are saying their connection isnââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t working. I also know that if you canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t get to the root of the problem with the end user, its all so easy to tell them what they want to hear in order to pass the buck to a colleague somewhere down the line. I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t do this, as I wouldnââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t feel right †“ its unethical †“ Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m at my job to help people †“ itââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s what Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m paid for, and if Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m not doing it right my company will find someone else who will. In other words I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t like fobbing people off. Which is exactly what your support team have done to me all 6 times Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢ve been in touch.

Here is a brief summary of my calls to your tech support team.

First call I was at work, aware of the below par tech support you offer in the evenings I thought Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d try and catch someone who knew what a P.C was.
He was very helpful and friendly †“ I thought maybe you guys arenââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t so bad after all! I told him all the raw facts, about my packet loss, about my pings and resetting modem. He sounded pretty clued up. He went off for a bit and explained though it was difficult with me not being in front of the P.C heââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢d take a look. He did, and he explained it was due to a service outage and It was due to be fixed in a week. Happy with his explanation I went off †“ then I checked the ntl service status page †“ which has always guided me in times of need. No service outages listed for Luton †“ none. Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d been fobbed off.

The next call happened the following day †“ I think Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d been put through to one of your overseas call centres †“ much to my dismay. So I calmly talked him though all of the above that I mentioned. He was insistent I needed to call back when I was in front of my PC. I explained to him all of the above would definitely be occurring when I got home. He wouldnââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t let me continue †“ I had to be in front of my computer. What was frustrating about this was the diagnostics had all been presented to him but he didnââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t want to take responsibility. Fob off no.2 there.

The next call happened later that evening in front of my PC. This time I was able to get someone from regular tech support. I told him all of the above again, and he went off to †œask someoneââ‚à ‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ� I waited and when he came back he said it was related to a network cable. At this point I foolishly agreed with him and ended the call †“ of course it wasnââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t the cable! Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d already tried that! Fob off no.3

The next call happened the following day. I spoke to a young lady. Once again, ran through what the symptoms were, and how Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d diagnosed them. She then very kindly said †œok sir, what Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢ll do is transfer you to our engineers and they will schedule someone to come and change your modemââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�
Overjoyed I thanked her enthusiastically †“ and awaited to be put through toâ₠¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢à ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã‚¦..
Customer services †“ to a nice Scottish bloke who cheerily apologized and said Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d been put through to the wrong dept and that Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d have to call back when Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m in front of my pc.
Fob off no. 4

The last 2 calls, this evening were the worst yet.

I got home, and it was about 6 oâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢clock. I rang through after the usual long wait †“ and got through to your overseas technical support again, to a lady.
Her solution was the worst yet.
She said sheââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢d †œdone somethingââ‚ ¬ÂÂÂÂ� to the connection and to leave it off for 15 mins. I knew it wouldnââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t make a lick of difference but I tried it just to be co-operative. She said if it didnââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t work call back to schedule an engineer visit.
So I waited, and it didnâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t work. Fob off no. 5

Last guy I spoke to (about an hour ago now, this thing isnââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t writing itself!) got me to download a test file, that came in very slow on account of the packet loss. He said †œoh, thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s very slowââ‚ ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ� and then said there was a known service outage that would be fixed by Wednesday †“ even though there are no notifications on the ntlworld server status page again.
Fob off no.6 now.

So 6 calls and nothing to show for it †“ my connection is still p*** poor despite my best efforts. With all the fobbing off you do Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m amazed you get any real work done! Do you have a specific training module with fobbing off techniques? If so bravo! You got me, a technical support staff member 6 times! Your staff are trained exceptionally well!

No I really mean it †“ not once did a single member of your staff even acknowledge my own tests and proceeded with their own †“ Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d wager about 2 of the 6 I contacted know what packet loss is. Their knowledge is terrible and it amazes me you can even call your departments technical support.

Now please, for the love of all that is merciful †“ take my fault seriously †“ youââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ve been presented with the facts and I really donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t want to cancel the service on account of something that can be so easily fixed (or replaced). It would be far too much hassle and I really canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t be doing with it all. As much as you probably donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t care about me as a customer †“ Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m begging just this once †“ please put an end to my connection problems. I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t quite know how much more I have to do before I get my old connection back.

Either write back to me, call me or email me †“ just please move this forward as Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m done with the phoning up and being fobbed off. Drop me a line †“ in any shape or form.
Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m at my wits end and this is almost literally my last resort †“ I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t like moaning and Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m sure you donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t like my moaning either †“ so please just move this forward!


Fingers crossed - i'll let you know how i get on

[darkone338]

forgive me if i missed something... if the computer reports "network cable unplugged" when there is a router between your pc and the modem, then surely the problem lies between the PC and the router ? The pc shouldnt report a network cable unplugged unless you power off or reboot your router... The modem falling over shouldnt cause that to happen... have you looked at the possibility that it could be a failing ethernet card ? You dont mention if you have tried replacing this.

Oh and quick tip.. firstly, this is an independant site, so talking to ntl in the first tense, doesnt sound quite right, and second, slating tech support isnt likely to get those here who do happen to work for NTL and hang out here, to help you. just my words of advice.. i know how frustrating these things can be.

[Druchii]

The pc shouldnt report a network cable unplugged unless you power off or reboot your router... The modem falling over shouldnt cause that to happen...

Happens all the time to me between my 98SE box and my XP box, i can still ping and transfer using it.

[Mick Fisher]

It would seem Ntl have major problems which for whatever reason they seem to have no intention of fixing in the foreseeable future.
As is the usual practice of ISP's in this position Ntl is just burying it's head in the sand and refusing to admit it has any problems.
The Indian call centre seems to be only there to act as a buffer and to fob off aggrieved users so it seems to be doing it's job well.
I daresay Ntl saw all this coming, so went to a premium call rate to TS in order that it's actions in going to 10Mb, thus causing this debacle, wouldn't cost it any extra in call charges.
Another typically cynical Ntl ploy.
Your best bet is to move your custom to some other provider.
My own connection has been sub standard for over 6months now but I can work round it. If it gets that I cannot work round it I won't bother with wasting my cash phoning India but instead will just arrange ADSL.

[applez]

Originally Posted by darkone338

forgive me if i missed something... if the computer reports "network cable unplugged" when there is a router between your pc and the modem, then surely the problem lies between the PC and the router ? The pc shouldnt report a network cable unplugged unless you power off or reboot your router... The modem falling over shouldnt cause that to happen... have you looked at the possibility that it could be a failing ethernet card ? You dont mention if you have tried replacing this.

Oh and quick tip.. firstly, this is an independant site, so talking to ntl in the first tense, doesnt sound quite right, and second, slating tech support isnt likely to get those here who do happen to work for NTL and hang out here, to help you. just my words of advice.. i know how frustrating these things can be.

well, i know this is a 3rd party support site - and yes I've sent this whole message to ntl today directly - I just wanted to highlight this all.
Anyhow on your technical bit - yeah i have tried with no router attatched - this is the first thing i tried. Like i said, when it reported network cable unplugged the modem powered itself off and on again.
I wouldnt be so frustrated had I not spent the time to rule out issues within my domain of control.

[Stuart]

applez, to Cableforum.

Although this site is a third party support site, we do have contacts within NTL.

If you PM (click the SendPM button at the bottom left hand corner of this post) me your Name, address, account number and a daytime contact number, I'll see if I can get one of them to look into the problem for you.

[darkone338]

Originally Posted by applez

well, i know this is a 3rd party support site - and yes I've sent this whole message to ntl today directly - I just wanted to highlight this all.
Anyhow on your technical bit - yeah i have tried with no router attatched - this is the first thing i tried. Like i said, when it reported network cable unplugged the modem powered itself off and on again.
I wouldnt be so frustrated had I not spent the time to rule out issues within my domain of control.

Yes, but my point being, if the cable lnk down problem occurs with the router inline, then I would assume this problem to lie between the 2 devices, as I would be suprised if the routers ethernet interfaces will go down, should the modem go down. To me it seems you have already discounted the computers ethernet interface itself. Anyhow.. on another note, StuartC's contact helped a colleague of mine at work a couple weeks back, and his problem was sorted in no time at all..... So heres looking forward to a happy resolution for you.

[applez]

Well,

I stand corrected on nearly every statement i've made regarding NTL.

Turns out the first guy was indeed correct - there is an active service outage which is only affecting a relative minority of users. Kinda leaves me with egg on my face!

Ive been in contact with NTL this evening in a no-nonsense technical chatter about the connection and whats ocourring. I was very satisfied with the explanation and I'm confident they are doing all they can to resolve the fault.

The service was outstanding and based upon it I would gladly say NTL have done their best for me support wise and I would continue to reccomend them.

Well played, NTL!

Thanks so much!!

Originally Posted by applez

Well,

I stand corrected on nearly every statement i've made regarding NTL.

Turns out the first guy was indeed correct - there is an active service outage which is only affecting a relative minority of users. Kinda leaves me with egg on my face!

Ive been in contact with NTL this evening in a no-nonsense technical chatter about the connection and whats ocourring. I was very satisfied with the explanation and I'm confident they are doing all they can to resolve the fault.

The service was outstanding and based upon it I would gladly say NTL have done their best for me support wise and I would continue to reccomend them.

Well played, NTL!

Thanks so much!!

it was good of you to post back with an update & I hope your connection is soon restored. I rang tonight because of no connection, they confirmed there wasn't an area outage, so I looked more closely at my pc - and the onboard network card was disabled in the bios

- I'd been trying to solve a conflict between my onboard sound & a PCI soundcard & had obviously disabled the network card, as well as the sound chip

- I'm just glad I declined the offer for them to 'further investigate' why I couldn't get a connection

[Druchii]

Originally Posted by homealone

it was good of you to post back with an update & I hope your connection is soon restored. I rang tonight because of no connection, they confirmed there wasn't an area outage, so I looked more closely at my pc - and the onboard network card was disabled in the bios - I'd been trying to solve a conflict between my onboard sound & a PCI soundcard & had obviously disabled the network card, as well as the sound chip - I'm just glad I declined the offer for them to 'further investigate' why I couldn't get a connection

Giggles manically... Done this before now too

But, oddly my onboard LAN does actually show in windows even when disabled, is this normal ?