Make sure she says yes, ja, oui, etc

[Russ]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...513756,00.html

Interesting idea but will it really have much of an impact? There's a school of thought that says if it prevents one rape then it's done good - but think about it. What does she need to do to give consent? Say the word 'yes'? What about 'yeah'? Or 'yah'? Will a nod of the head do?

What if she's foreign? Can you say you thought 'Nein' meant 'yes'? I saw this because you can bet some hot-shot solicitor will try it as a defence.

Originally Posted by Russ D

What does she heed to do to give consent? Say the word 'yes'? What about 'yeah'? Or 'yah'? Will a nod of the head do?

It doesn't matter what she says at the time. If she decides to change her mind the next day and tells the police she did not consent, it's still her word against yours.

I can see young people soon carry 'consent cards' - where the willing young lady can sign to say 'yes'. It'll be the ONLY way to be sure.

[punky]

The trouble is most 'date rapes' are mutual consent.

Usually in these cases the woman is so ****ed up she doesn't know what she's doing. She agrees to sex, wakes up in the middle of the night, her memory is shot to pieces because of the level of alcohol she has taken and can't remember saying yes. She automatically feels guilty, ashamed, and thinks to herself its not normally what she does, so she automatically believes she was drugged and raped.

How can you judge when a woman is and isn't capable of making a sound judgement? She says yes coherently enough, but because of the alcohol, doesn't have that ability...

I'm not the sort to have one night stands, but even if I was, i'd have packed that in years ago. I wouldn't even want to be in that sort of position where I could be accused, even though I was innocent. Its just not worth it. I wouldn't even want to be in the position of kissing her/having a little cuddle in case she cries sex assault which is just as bad...

---------- Post added at 10:28 ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 ----------

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

It doesn't matter what she says at the time. If she decides to change her mind the next day and tells the police she did not consent, it's still her word against yours.

I can see young people soon carry 'consent cards' - where the willing young lady can sign to say 'yes'. It'll be the ONLY way to be sure.

True... It will get to the point where women would have to sign a declaration and then compare that signature with a bank/credit card so the man has absolute proof that she said yes and was in a reasonable position (from the man's point of view) to make that position.

All this "make sure she clearly says yes" stuff doesn't matter... Whether she says yes, nods, or just smiles, its always your word against hers... Women say "rape hardly gets proven so its against the woman in favour of the man"... Not from the bloke's point of view, being falsely accused of rape it isn't.

Originally Posted by punky

I wouldn't even want to be in the position of kissing her/having a little cuddle in case she cries sex assault which is just as bad...

Makes it rather hard to actually get into a relationship if you won't show affection. lol.

[punky]

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Makes it rather hard to actually get into a relationship if you won't show affection. lol.

You know what I mean... I'd take alcohol out of the equation. Even if it was a dinner date with some wine and she wasn't drinking to excess, i'd wait until the next morning when she was sober before I make the decision to try and take things further.

Originally Posted by punky

All this "make sure she clearly says yes" stuff doesn't matter...

This all started because 'not saying no' was being seen as the same as saying 'yes'.

Now in a normal, loving realtionship, that is probably true. i.e. your gf is unlikely to specifically say yes, or to expect you to ask - it would rather spoil the moment - but in this case there is a level of trust between the people that suffices.

However, in a casual relationship there is no trust, as such. You might both accept that the other is unlikely to be a serial killer, but the moment, the alcohol, the passion - it's all getting in the way of fully understanding what you're getting into. And that applies to BOTH parties. She might not shout 'rape' the next day - but she might just tell everyone about her new 'boyfriend' - all of a sudden you have become more to her than you'd bargained for. So it pays for both participants to be sure of what they're doing. Which means if the other person is too drunk to make sense - perhaps it's better to abstain. It also means if you sense uncertainty (from her OR yourself) then maybe it's not such a good idea - no matter how sexy she is.

Even if you can get her to sign that consent card, doesn't mean one of you won't regret it in the morning.

---------- Post added at 10:53 ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 ----------

Originally Posted by punky

You know what I mean... I'd take alcohol out of the equation. Even if it was a dinner date with some wine and she wasn't drinking to excess, i'd wait until the next morning when she was sober before I make the decision to try and take things further.

Yeah - I knew what you meant

Trouble is, when a girl has been wined and dined, that's exactly whe she would want you to 'take things further' - if she felt the same.

It really isn't that difficult. Don't assume you can kiss on the first date. In fact, don't assume you can kiss on any date. If you're trying to develop a serious relationship, then there is no rush, and when the time is right you'll both know it. That might be on the first date - or it might be after some time.
And even then - having kissed does not mean that the floodgates have now opened and you can now start fondling etc. Again, what is acceptable and what isn't will be quite clear, if you approach the relationship with respect for each other.

That doesn't mean that a casual relationship cannot be respectful too. And if it is, then it will also not be too difficult to know what is, and what is not, 'on offer'.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Russ D

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...513756,00.html

Interesting idea but will it really have much of an impact? There's a school of thought that says if it prevents one rape then it's done good - but think about it. What does she need to do to give consent? Say the word 'yes'? What about 'yeah'? Or 'yah'? Will a nod of the head do?

What if she's foreign? Can you say you thought 'Nein' meant 'yes'? I saw this because you can bet some hot-shot solicitor will try it as a defence.

And if she is Greek it is even more so as Neh means Yes.

However given the current low rate of conviction in rape cases this may well balance the situation somewhat. There are many men out there who are only after a one night stand, this would ensure they are with a like minded female.

[greencreeper]

Probably best having a short written agreement, perhaps on a business card that you keep with the condoms. "He's a stud muffin and I want his babies", sort of thing. Just read it to her and get her to sign.

[Orior]

What if she cant speak cause she has it in her ......ah forget it.

[marky]

I say no all the time, but she forces me

Seriously, the only way is to get to know each other properly first. that way both parties know what each other want.


Ban the one night stand, its the scurge of evil, repent sinners

[LemonyBrainAid]

Err.. what about if she says "Oui" during sex ? Does that count?

Originally Posted by LemonyBrainAid

Err.. what about if she says "Oui" during sex ? Does that count?

that only happens in adverts for herbal essences

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by LemonyBrainAid

Err.. what about if she says "Oui" during sex ? Does that count?

You direct her to the toilet and hope she makes it in time before leaving a puddle on your shagpile (unless she's hoping you're into golden showers )