Muslims to march in London - Page 15

driver_problems · 15-02-2006, 03:31

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Originally Posted by Xaccers

Who me? *innocent look*

yeah - what are you doing up at this hour? planning textual atrocities?

Xaccers · 15-02-2006, 03:38

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Originally Posted by driver_problems

yeah - what are you doing up at this hour? planning textual atrocities?

Working nights with one of my many muslim colleagues

15-02-2006, 03:53

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Originally Posted by Xaccers

Working nights with one of my many muslim colleagues

driver_problems · 15-02-2006, 03:59

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Originally Posted by acoolwelshbloke

I was listening to a couple of podcasts tonight and I sort of got the impression that the 'prophet' was a kind of model person to be emulated as he was, evidently, the epitomy of living type of thing. And it sort of occurred to me that people burning this and trashing that were not quite living up to that ideal? I will stand corrected

Mr Angry · 15-02-2006, 08:51

Nice piece of cherry picking Xaccers,

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Originally Posted by Xaccers

You know, I could have sworn that the Clinton administration used it's military might against a certain "chemical factory" long before 9/11 after a terrorist attack.
In fact, wasn't the Clinton administration quite active in anti-al qaida actions?

Why is the west not at war with Saudi Arabia where the majority of the hijackers came from or is this a sort of "pick and choose" war on terror?

Just so that we're not mistaken, are you saying that what most people consider to be terrorists are not evil? That the actions they take, blowing up civilians who just want to go about their business are not evil actions?

No. But then again are the colateral, non military, deaths of innocent civilians caught in a war "going about their business" in Iraq, Afghanistan or wherever not evil actions also?

February 11, 1990

Remarkable, I don't recall the ANC who swept to power, ever denouncuing their, or his, actions.

When was he considered a freedom fighter by the west? And I don't mean the media, I mean by the US goverment, as from what I know he was never seen as that, just as a tool to cause the Russians problems.

They funded him and trained him. Now they feign shock at his actions? Come on.

Are you saying they should cow tow to the anti-west propaganda, like the dossier the danish imams took to the middle east with the sole purpose of causing outrage?

Read it again. We are all guilty of succumbing to propaganda.

Bovine excriment! A terrorist is not a freedome fighter! The only people who try that line are ones who try to justify what terrorists do!
Who the hell is trying to glorify war, oh hang on, the islamic extremists are with their calls for jihad, despite such calls being totally against the rules of jihad in the koran!

Read it again. The clue is in the bit about "mindset".

What comes after umpteenth?
Can anyone tell me?
Because last time I said for the umpteenth time, and no I have to say it again.
The images that were published by the newspapers are not the ones which caused the offence, the images of a man dressed up as a pig with the added caption "the true face of muhammad," a muslim praying while being humped by a dog, and muhammad portrayed as a demonic paedophile because of his 9 year old wife, in addition to the right wing anti-islamic propoganda are what caused the offence!
Other muslims who haven't even seen the cartoons, let alone the offensive images and documents, joined the objection because they were told as muslims they should object by other muslims, without really knowing what they're objecting to.

We don't all have your remarkable insight - nor am I discussing anything beyond the photographs published in the Danish papers and the fact that they, as reported worldwide beyond Leighton Buzzard, were the catalyst for the current protests.

Justifying terrorism again?

Pathetic.

15-02-2006, 09:36

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Originally Posted by punky

Before you mention it, The Troubles wern't about religion, they were about politics.

Both, actually - only many times more complicated than that.

---------- Post added at 08:20 ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 ----------

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Originally Posted by punky

If that were only the case - the root of the problems go back hundreds of years.

---------- Post added at 08:32 ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 ----------

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Originally Posted by Mr Angry

As I said earlier its a matter of disarming the mindset. Working to achieve that will develop a greater understanding and mutual respect.

Another excellent post.

And I don't want to disagree with the main message you bring, except that the examples you have cited were indeed conflicts around very strongly held beliefs which were very savagely defended.

Yet, I don't think in either case it descended into the kind of fanatacism that bore up suicide bombers. Even when religion was a core element of the conflict.

In this case, it goes further in that the stated aim of the religion is to dominate. Not a mindset that's going to be easy to disarm...

---------- Post added at 08:36 ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 ----------

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Originally Posted by Xaccers

Airsofters:

That one behind and to the right of you looks like an Islamic terrorist to me...

basa · 15-02-2006, 10:20

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Originally Posted by Mr Angry

It was all well and good to let them carry on killing each other as long as it wasn't "us" who were suffering. This exact same methodology of "not in our back yard" was as much a contributory factor in the execution of the holocaust as it is in the modern xenophobic frenzy against muslims - get used to it.

Well unfortunately you tend to get described as 'interfering' if you try to sort out other peoples troubles. Until that is they bring those 'troubles' to us and involve us.

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Originally Posted by Mr Angry

You need to understand that there are those in the muslim community who believe that they are at war and they see the west and its allies to be terrorists.

So why do they choose to come and live amongst us ? The enemy within ?

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Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Are they not entitled to freedom of speech, freedom of thought or should they simply cow tow to the propaganda that we are all fed day and daily like sheep?

Absolutely yes, but they get more freedoms here than in their 'ancestral homeland', but unfortunately for them it also gives 'us' those same freedoms.

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Originally Posted by Mr Angry

The murderous acts that they carry out are seen by them as acts of bravery in much the same way that the bombing of Dresden was seen as the actions of a war hero. There are still relatives of nazi officers who cherish the medals their fathers and grandfathers were awarded for manning the death camps. The fact is that if you want to sanitize genocide or terrorism you simply relabel it as war or freedom fighting. Lets be frank about this. If you glorify war you will pay the price because someone WILL put you to the test, of that you can be sure.

Again unfortunately, even in a war situation there are some actions that come outside of just 'fighting for freedom' - Dresden, Hiroshima, Twin Towers, the Holocaust. These are not 'heroic' actions, they are designed to destroy morale and do nothing to advance their 'cause' and the only ones who glorify the current crop of atrocities are the muslims in the name of the fight for Islam.

I always wonder why these people decided to come and live amongst us, knowing our religious, political and social attitudes and then decide they don't like our 'ways' and try to change them ??

Ramrod · 15-02-2006, 11:17

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Originally Posted by basa

I always wonder why these people decided to come and live amongst us, knowing our religious, political and social attitudes and then decide they don't like our 'ways' and try to change them ??

Absalutely! That, imo, is the height of arrogance and insensitivity. Whenever us westeners go to foreign countries and try to impose our values on them we are quite rightly lambasted for doing so.

punky · 15-02-2006, 13:45

Oh dear...

15-02-2006, 13:56

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Originally Posted by punky

Oh dear...

It just keeps going because there are people ready to fan the flames:

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But the protests have gathered momentum in Pakistan this week. Islamic groups and traders' associations have organized shutdowns and street rallies that have descended into violence.

What are they hoping to achieve?

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Intelligence officials say members of outlawed Islamic militant groups have joined the protests, and may be inciting violence to undermine the pro-Western government of President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

As I've said before, I don't think the cartoon issue is about freedom of speech any more - it's now being used with a view to inciting global jihad.

No apology from Denmark would change that. They could even hand over the 'culprits' to Islamic fundamentalists to murder, and still I'm sure it would rage on.

The only way forward is for the supposed majority of moderate and peaceful Muslims to thwart the extremists. But can they? Do they want to?

basa · 15-02-2006, 14:07

I wonder what the reaction will be to this guy (from a link on punky's page above).

15-02-2006, 14:32

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Originally Posted by basa

I wonder what the reaction will be to this guy (from a link on punky's page above).

You think that is explosive?

Between the reports of British brutality in Iraq plus new Abu Ghraib pictures I'd say that WWIII is not far off...

punky · 15-02-2006, 14:53

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Originally Posted by basa

I wonder what the reaction will be to this guy (from a link on punky's page above).

If anyone touches him, or worse injuries/kills him it will prove what the Danish paper's set out to. It already has done in a round about way.

Anyone who wears a shirt like that I think is in serious and immediate danger.

danielf · 15-02-2006, 15:05

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Originally Posted by punky

If anyone touches him, or worse injuries/kills him it will prove what the Danish paper's set out to. It already has done in a round about way.

Anyone who wears a shirt like that I think is in serious and immediate danger.

I think that anyone (particularly a minister) who wears a shirt like that is an irresponsible idiot as well. He says the t-shirts are not meant as a provocation. Well, what does he expect will happen?

Ramrod · 15-02-2006, 15:58

Steps in the right direction

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The audience are nearly all Muslims who have come to hear influential Islamic scholars - or shaykhs - from all over the world give their views on the Koran's teaching.

It is one of a series of talks aimed at steering Muslims away from extremism by clearing up misconceptions and misinterpretations of the Koran, part of the Radical Middleway Project.