Should they be published in the UK?

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

"I have always held the view that trouble would brew in years to come as governments have bowed down and been to lenient to other cultures living here whilst not giving the same treatment to the long term citizens, I think however the actions of these protestors and the like will bring trouble much sooner."

This illustrates a point I made in my earlier post. For the purposes of my analogy let's assume that you are white, were born in and still live in London and consider yourself to be a "long term citizen".

What distinction is there between you and a muslim of coloured skin exactly the same age as you born, say for example, in Birmingham that makes you a "long term citizen" and him not?

Before any MODs kneejerk and delete this I'd like to state that this is not an attack on the poster who made the original comment, nor am I trying to "start trouble" or "offend" anyone. I just want to know what the definition of a "long term citizen" is and I feel that this is a crucial element of this discussion.

I take no offence at you commenting on my post.

I suppose I am really trying to say a long term citizen as one who follows the traditions and laws of this country. I feel that the small minority of muslims who are causing these problems are second and third generation muslims who were born in this country. I would certainly hope they are not people who have chosen to come here on their own free will, that may sound like a "send them back" attitude, but I honestly believe that you must live and abide by the rules of the country if you are visiting or living there. There are countries I would never visit because I disagree with their rules, if however I visited and caused a protest I would probably be locked up for not following the rules. This country is a fairly easy going one, and we allow almost anyone to come here and we seem to bend the rules to suit them.

All I expect in this country is equal treatment for all, protestors should be treated the same if they are black, white, christian, muslim, etc etc.
We must stop pussy footing around and apply the same rules to all.

These protestors can not surely be that annoyed about some cartoons in this day and age, this is just an excuse by a minority to cause trouble.

[Stuart]

Escapee, I agree.

Regarding the cartoons, I can't help thinking that if the Muslims had not made such a fuss, then the cartoons would have faded into obscurity.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Escapee, I agree.

Regarding the cartoons, I can't help thinking that if the Muslims had not made such a fuss, then the cartoons would have faded into obscurity.

yep, surely the bottom line is that in this and some other western countries we have a sense of humour that pokes fun at one another. Who in the west would make a fuss if they published cartoons poking fun etc at us!

[TigaSefi]

Even the Jewish ppl laugh at themselves all the time (I know I do ). It's high time that Muslims learnt to have a sense of humor!

[Mr Angry]

Many thanks for that.

Your "I honestly believe that you must live and abide by the rules of the country if you are visiting or living there" statement is absolutely spot on.

On the issue of the cartoons. Unfortunately (and I'm saying this as a non-muslim) I don't feel qualified to state whether they are offensive or not because I do not subscribe to or practise their faith.

In reality I don't think it's up to or appropriate for non muslims to determine what does and doesn't offend muslims - we / they are ill placed to do so. Humour, satire and political humour are very western traits. This does not, however, legitimize the actions of some of the protesters.

Tolerance and understanding are key to this core issue of mutual respect. I recently posted a satirical post on another thread, prior to the start of this thread, which was removed because the MODs thought it "might cause offence and trouble". The fact that it contained the name of the son of God in the title deemed it, according to one poster, to be "insulting to Jesus".

This goes to show that even a written, obviously satirical, message drafted by a "westerner" can be interpreted as insensitive to other westerners whereas practitioners of an alternative religion might find no harm in the statement - if you know where I'm coming from.

Anyway, thanks for your reasoned, mature and logical reply - it is very much appreciated.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

It's this siege mentality of "our society" which causes a lot of the problems we see today. Many, if not the vast majority, of those protesters in London were british born and bred and, as such, have the same rights as any other British citizen should they elect to exercise them, be that freedom of speech or whatever.

Ahem...they may be 'British born' but they are definitely 'British bred'. The only thing that makes these objectionable, rabble rousing, proto suicide bombers British is their passports. They don't want to be British, they (seem to) hate the white/anglo saxon/non-muslim British (and all that they stand for) and won't rest till they are either converted or dead. It is an oft stated aim of theirs that they won't rest till Europe (and the world) is Muslim.....well f*ck them....I don't even like Christianity, let alone Islam!
The British have let a cancer grow in their society, complacency and woolly liberal thinking has nurtured it.
ffs......the police didn't even make any arrests at yesterdays demonstrations even though there were many clear cases of incitement to violence.
If I went to the same spot tomorrow and held up a banner proclaiming that muslims who insulted Jesus should be massacred I would be arrested!

/rant over/

[TheDaddy]

I notice the only person that the tv station's showed the police speaking to was a white man shouting at the mob, he got moved on with the threat of arrest for breach of the peace!

[punky]

Its great that other countries & press are uniting against Islam and re-printing the article. Muslims will realise they can't boycott everyone. Hopefully they'll learn to behave like reasonable people.

Islam is by and away the most extreme religion. It has the most restrictions and condititions and breeds the most devotion in its followers. It is blasphemy & illegal to make an image of God but in loads of TV programs we see an image of God - we don't see violent retribution from Christians. A Danish food company is being forced out of business because of what a Danish newspaper has done. Fair? And now embassies are being stormed and set on fire. They aren't doing themselves any favours here.

[Mr Angry]

"The only thing that makes these objectionable, rabble rousing, proto suicide bombers British is their passports."

You're quite the liberal, aren't you?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

"The only thing that makes these objectionable, rabble rousing, proto suicide bombers British is their passports."

You're quite the liberal, aren't you?

Come on, he has got a point that hook handed preacher said that living in this country was like living in a toilet, well if he hates us so much he can go back to his Afgan cave and take the rest of the hate brigade back with him, we could even have a whip round to help send them on their way.

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by Escapee

<snip> this is just an excuse by a minority to cause trouble.

I suspect excuse may well be close to the mark as these cartoons were published some months ago and nothing, I really suspect its more like a show for some other reason, one will have to guess at what, and these cartoons were about, so an easy scapegoat for the real reason behind these demonstrations. Whatever the real reason, the people who began it probably felt it wasnt a wise cause to shout about, and found something pretty measly and pathetic to get the masses wound up over instead.

[etccarmageddon]

if we allow these morons to hold placards saying 'wipe out all non muslims' or whatever crap then this message is promoting more tube attacks and the like. all those **** bags should have been arrested, DNA samples taken and then locked up.

---------- Post added at 10:30 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

farce

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/stor...ws/news3.shtml

Just been reading this article..Maybe it will give an insight to those like me who came late into this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/4677976.stm

I also thought this was interesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4680948.stm

And how mealy mouthed some leaders can be in their comments.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4674570.stm

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

if we allow these morons to hold placards saying 'wipe out all non muslims' or whatever crap then this message is promoting more tube attacks and the like. all those **** bags should have been arrested, DNA samples taken and then locked up.

---------- Post added at 10:30 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

farce

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/stor...ws/news3.shtml

Detained under the prevention of terrorism act.

It has irked me more that the police are only contemplating arresting the people who openly defied our laws and standards.
I dont care what religion colour or sex you are, you abide by our laws.

Had that been a BNP rally the riot police would have waded in batons drawn and hell bent on causing massive disturbances.
Look at how the respected British police attacked the travellers at stone henge, they werent even protesting, but a group of minorities does somehting like this and they are terrified of being branded racist for upholding our laws.

Its no wonder theres simmering racial tension on some of the streets in the UK, there are those that currently are fairly placid, but if the muslim fanatics want to stir up a race war, it wont be long before ALL our streets are a battle ground.

Freedom of speach allows the muslims to do their protest but that same freedom allows newspapers to print their views on isuues surrounding the islamic faith, and if these people dont like mohammed being labelled a terrorist, perhaps its time for them to stop terror tacticis and being murderous hypocrites.

[Ramrod]

Yup, I remember grannies being arrested and dragged away at Brightlingsea for protesting about veal exports, I remember poll tax protesters being hit with batons in Trafalguar Square.......so how come we can have muslim race hate banners paraded with impunity, muslims dressed as suicide bombers, calling for more bombings.....and the only arrest made there was of a European man who was distributing cartoons......I am disgusted at our politicians and our police.