Major explosion in Hemel Hempstead

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Do you see that the FBU are criticising Hertfordshire firebrigade?

Bunch of opportunistic chumps. A lot of the local firemen are seriously displeased by the FBU sticking the boot in, especially right now while they are still on site cleaning up.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Do you see that the FBU are criticising Hertfordshire firebrigade?

not sure, really, hindsight is 20:20, of course, but a contingency plan to contain an incident of this type would deploy a massive resorce, which may never have been needed.

- I am more concerned that Total don't appear to have had more of their own safety systems, considering the nature of the site. We have two large oil refineries nearby (one with a direct pipeline to the depot in Hemel), and both have been sending rotating shifts of firefighters with foam & specialised equipment, since the incident occured.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by homealone

not sure, really, hindsight is 20:20, of course, but a contingency plan to contain an incident of this type would deploy a massive resorce, which may never have been needed.

- I am more concerned that Total don't appear to have had more of their own safety systems, considering the nature of the site. We have two large oil refineries nearby (one with a direct pipeline to the depot in Hemel), and both have been sending rotating shifts of firefighters with foam & specialised equipment, since the incident occured.

I thought the teams from Minginham were being used
Unlike the refinary at Mingingham, the depot at Hemel is quite small in comparison.
They did have foam there (which some parts of the media have used to suggest that there was a prior leak ) and Herts firebrigade say they had 20,000ltrs of foam already but knew more would be needed and have explained why you don't start dousing the fire until you know you've got enough foam ready to complete the job.

Not sure what the basis of the FBU's criticism is but I am personally perplexed by why:

1. There was no system in place to ensure firefighters know at all times what is in tankers capable of holding up to 3 millions gallons of highly f;lammable liquid
2. Why their training apparently only considered the possibility of three tanks going up, not 20, given their close proximity
3. Allied to that, why it took 24 hours for enough foam stocks to arrive to begin quenching the fire.

If I was a firefighter I think I'd be hacked off with everybody.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I thought the teams from Minginham were being used
Unlike the refinary at Mingingham, the depot at Hemel is quite small in comparison.
They did have foam there (which some parts of the media have used to suggest that there was a prior leak ) and Herts firebrigade say they had 20,000ltrs of foam already but knew more would be needed and have explained why you don't start dousing the fire until you know you've got enough foam ready to complete the job.

ah right, I thought it was a bit bigger than that

I understood about the need to 'marshall' enough foam to do the job 'all in one', but was surprised the fire spread so easily to the rest of the depot, following the initial explosion.

I do think it is wrong to criticise the Herts Fire Fighters, especially coming from the FBU as, in my opinion, Total should be responsible for the safety of the site, with the Fire Service as a back up.

[moffmeister]

Originally Posted by homealone

ah right, I thought it was a bit bigger than that

I understood about the need to 'marshall' enough foam to do the job 'all in one', but was surprised the fire spread so easily to the rest of the depot, following the initial explosion.

I do think it is wrong to criticise the Herts Fire Fighters, especially coming from the FBU as, in my opinion, Total should be responsible for the safety of the site, with the Fire Service as a back up.

Yes, HOSL (Herts Oil Storage Ltd) is responsible for the safety of HOSL east and west. But HOW exactly are HOSL and the BPA (British Pipeline Agency) supposed to be able to deal with incidents of THIS magnitude??? Major refineries are more prepared to cope with this kinda thing but Buncefield is a small terminal by comparison. Until a couple of years ago, each company based there had its own terminal, not just one for BP and one for everyone else (HOSL West).

Originally Posted by moffmeister

Yes, HOSL (Herts Oil Storage Ltd) is responsible for the safety of HOSL east and west. But HOW exactly are HOSL and the BPA (British Pipeline Agency) supposed to be able to deal with incidents of THIS magnitude??? Major refineries are more prepared to cope with this kinda thing but Buncefield is a small terminal by comparison. Until a couple of years ago, each company based there had its own terminal, not just one for BP and one for everyone else (HOSL West).

Well it is their responsibility to be able to provide info to the emergency services on what is they are actually storing?

I'd be interested in the design of this place, given that no-one seems to have anticpated 20 tanks blowing.

Originally Posted by moffmeister

Yes, HOSL (Herts Oil Storage Ltd) is responsible for the safety of HOSL east and west. But HOW exactly are HOSL and the BPA (British Pipeline Agency) supposed to be able to deal with incidents of THIS magnitude??? Major refineries are more prepared to cope with this kinda thing but Buncefield is a small terminal by comparison. Until a couple of years ago, each company based there had its own terminal, not just one for BP and one for everyone else (HOSL West).

Good question, I imagine they will have done a risk assessment & concluded that the chance of such catastrophic explosions was not sufficient to merit more resource for site safety.

- I still think that the Fire Service should not be expected to fill any shortfall in the event of that risk assessment underestimating the potential for disaster, or certainly shouldn't be critisised, after the event, anyway. This is a time to learn from the event, not to point fingers, in my opinion.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...480291,00.html

..and quote:

"Looters have struck at homes abandoned after the Buncefield oil depot explosion. Burglars have descended on at least three houses and stripped them of contents, such as televisions.

Ironically, police ordered householders out of the homes after Sunday's explosion. They told them their homes would be safe in a police cordon."

F****** W*****s....

(The looters, not the police!)

Originally Posted by lsainsbury

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...480291,00.html

..and quote:

"Looters have struck at homes abandoned after the Buncefield oil depot explosion. Burglars have descended on at least three houses and stripped them of contents, such as televisions.

Ironically, police ordered householders out of the homes after Sunday's explosion. They told them their homes would be safe in a police cordon."

F****** W*****s....

(The looters, not the police!)

Actually I think the Police deserve to be the targets of a few choice sentiments as well. You can't go round assuring people their homes are safe behind a cordon and then have a thieving spree going on behind your back. What were the police doing? Where were they? I bet they'd have pounced PDQ if any of the residents had tried to go back home.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by lsainsbury

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...480291,00.html

F****** W*****s....

(The looters, not the police!)

Well the looting is to be expected this day and age, so personally I would have said

F****** W*****s.... (The the police!).
As law enforcement you cannot enforce the demand for someone to stay away and then be negligent in your job of protecting their property.

Originally Posted by http://www.herts.police.uk/about/about.htm

We have five aims in policing Hertfordshire:

1. To reduce crime
2. To improve public confidence in us
3. To improve our response to the public
4. To reduce disorder
5. And to improve public safety and feelings of safety

Well they have failed in 1, 2, 4 and 5 and probably 3 as they have not been responsive to the homeowners needs.
A FAIL all round then.

I hope the insurers claim off the police to recover the losses from looting.

[injuneer]

Nearly 4 years on & Total have pleaded guilty but they're appealing against the £750 million they will have to payout.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/8359005.stm

Oooh, nice

The ignition of the vapour cloud which followed the spillage of 300 tons of petrol

Now thats what I call a MOAB waiting to go off !