*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion (Part 3)

[LenMackin]

Now on the 10mb a month and with a family of four, plus downloads and viewing netvideo the 75gb limit will, i am sure, soon be met.

Doesnt seem that long ago we used to watch the clock because of cost, now we are all wondering how we can monitor downloads so we dont exceed our limit.

[recall2000]

I've lurked here for weeks reading this thread (and the previous closed ones) and finally thought I'd reply after reading the news about the 10mb rollout.

I got my letters a few weeks ago...so after 8 or 9 years with NTL (at different houses) I rang and cancelled the lot - phone, TV and 3mb broadband. I've already got a 2nd phone line waiting and I have a ADSL modem I bought a while ago purely for wireless (it was cheap from someone at work) so moving to DSL, whilst not painless I'm sure, wouldn't cost me.

I arranged for BT to come and put the phone line in and was all set for booking UKOnline or someone similar when NTL Customer Servies rang the day after I cancelled. They didn't even mention the TV or phone but didn't want me to leave the BB. I got 3 months free AND he promised...and I quote "10mb UNLIMITED" by the end of the year. I didn't believe it not for 1 second but he was adamant it will be happening. He said we (the customers I presume) would be getting mailshots about it. I really doubt they will do it (and especially not by the end of the year), but I'm not going to turn down 3 months free. Also added into the bargain I said it wasn't much good to me - 512k/s isn't worth £17.99/month when I can get 1mb for about the same price uncapped on DSL, and 2mb for not much more. So he said if my speed got dropped to 512k/s, whenever they did it to ring back and it would get put back up to 3mb. It did get dropped mid-October-ish (from memory) so I rang up and within 2 mins it was back on 3mb. So I'm not sure what all this talk is of being dropped to 512k/s and being stuck on that tier forever - or until you choose to jump ship. It seems there's no consistency in anything you read/hear.

I don't know what NTL are doing in the future with speeds/capping, but just in case anyone's interested in my experience of the whole episode so far, I thought I'd share it.

Cheers

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I am now on 10mbit, took a 2mbit downgrade and then an upgrade to get their but it works and i am in Leeds Area, question I have tho is this the kind of speeds im expected to get ?

1st 128K took 234 ms = 560137 Bytes/sec = approx 4660 kbits/sec
2nd 128K took 204 ms = 642510 Bytes/sec = approx 5346 kbits/sec
3rd 128K took 234 ms = 560137 Bytes/sec = approx 4660 kbits/sec
4th 128K took 234 ms = 560137 Bytes/sec = approx 4660 kbits/sec

Not lookin good that not when its supposed to be 10mbit, not sure why its almost half tho.

Kevin try this test please.

http://www.beelinebandwidthtest.com/

More accurate assessment of external internet traffic speed.

[PaWs]

If ppl are that unhappy with the capped service then perhaps they should vote with their feet.

After receiving a letter stating 138gb per month was in excess of the AuP and then another the following month stating 132gb wasn't complying with the 30gb/month cap NTL in their wisdom downgraded my connection to 512/64.
Particularly strange because in effect they were telling me that i couldn't download 4gb a day (appx 3.75 hours online) using a 3mbit connection because it was in breach of the T&C but using this 512 connection i could legally download around 3.5gb a day (24/7 connection) - and for 20 quid a month less than what i was paying !
So instead of ''spoiling the enjoyment of other users'' within that 3.75 hours i was spoiling the enjoyment of other users 24/7...Hmmm.

The only reason i cancelled my NTL service (which thankfully terminates on 19th November) was because of the 64k upload.I don't ever remember abusing the upstream yet i was been punished with this shocking connection speed.Particularly useless for gaming so in the end i had to cancel.

What annoys me more than anything is the fact that i've received 2 phone calls from customer services offering me alternative deals - the second call been particularly offensive.Some foreign woman actually went as far as stating that i wasn't a heavy user,i was officially deemed a moderate user.Because of this NTL were prepared to overlook my previous download amounts if i could (and i quote) ''try a closer compliance with the 30gb limits''.

Perhaps these people don't realise that users will cancel their services because of this imposed cap.Perhaps they think that by sending out these letters people will just fall into line and become surfers and e-mail collectors.

What NTL tend to forget is that in todays age 1gb a day no longer represents the 6 million pictures,xx amounts of mp3's and 30 or so short movie clips that they like to mention on a regular basis.Sure,5 years ago when ppl were stuck on 1mbit connections the above figures were good examples,but we've all moved on.3mbit (and above) connections open up greater avenues of possibilities and people will take advantage of that fact.

For my needs 1gb represents:
Full updates of 3 premium newsgroup binaries (with a 5-9 day retention)
less than 1/4 of a DVD movie or;
appx 3 double mp3 albums (@320kbs)

And finally god only knows why NTL are introducing a 10mbit connection with a ridiculously low cap (75gig)..Wouldn't it make far more sense to concentrate on what they already have and use that saved bandwidth to increase present download quotas?

Or at least give the option to users,instead of yet again enforcing increased speeds on people.

Like i said right at the top,vote with your feet.I'm now the proud owner of a BT phone and a very nice unmetered Bulldog connection.
As for NTL,who cares..If they're not careful they'll end up going the same way as Bell Cablemedia,Cable & Wireless and all those other digital incarnations i've outlived.

Goodbye and good riddance.

[Paul K]

Bulldog has the same sort of AUP as most other ISPs including NTL. They just have a higher limit before they send you the letter

[Rone]

What is Bulldogs limit as they say its unlimited?

UK Online have a fairly high limit, one NTL should maybe take a look at.

[LenMackin]

Well I agree with PaWs, despite how you cut it we are no longer talking about 3mb downloads and small clips of video, a 100mb download is not a lot of bother these days where once it would have taken a couple of hours. Even doing research means i might download 30 pdf's each day at 2 or 3 mb each!

I have alrady, since Nov 1st achieved 25gb download, this figure is taken directly from my router stats so everything that goes in and out is recorded. Keeping to 75gb is gonna be hard for a family of four.

In reality the limit DOES need to rise, and considerably sure there is a limit when someone is permanently downloading the entire content of alt.binary.whatever on a 24/7 basis but I seriously would have thought 310gb per month to be a reasonable limit as a starter with 500gb being more realistic, for the next 12 months and reviewed to accomodate new online services etc.

It's going to be very interesting when major services such as BBC start offering online programmes and access to the content of the vast library!

Feel the fear and do it anyhow, the competitions is out there, we can always go elsewhere. Sad to leave NTL cable though, felt the same about when i left that great ISP of the 90's U-net .... Who???

[badgerstuta]

I have also decided to vote with my feet. I'm quite prepared to pay more for an unlimited connection, I'm not bothered about super fast speeds like 10mb. What frustrates me the most is I've been very happy with the service provided but when I asked the broadband team if I would be stuck at 512 for eternity he said yes !! No details about any of the coming soon unlimited packages at all. All of this leaves me with no choice but to go to ADSl.
Just seems a shame that NTL may lose a lot of customers by not giving more concrete details of upcoming plans. I would have been very happy to sit it out on 512 if I knew that there was even the slightest opportunity of any new, faster unlimited packages, whatever the cost !! 512 for £17.99 is also hardly competitive when you see companies such as freedom2surf offering 2mb unlimited for slightly more !

[PaWs]

[quote=LenMackin]

It's going to be very interesting when major services such as BBC start offering online programmes and access to the content of the vast library!

quote]

This is exactly my point.As connection speeds increase so do the possibilities of use.
Nobody expects NTL to open up the airwaves and say ''ok download what you like when you like'' but on the other hand all it takes is a little common sense to realise that when this ''acceptable use'' policy was drafted (by BT openworld and adopted by NTL) the highest available connection was 1mbit and even i would agree that practically speaking avi's and lower quality mp3's were by far the better alternative to 4.3gb DVD movies and higher encoded music.

As Len quite rightly points out with the ''what happens when...'' scenario .What happens when streaming movies become available via the major film companies..What happens when game demos exceed 1gb (some are already upto and beyond 600mb).And of course what happens when the BBC offer program archives to the general public via download.

Suddenly the restrictive confines of 1gb a day become more than apparant.Perhaps when customers 'up sticks' and leave in their droves NTL will realise that the emphasis isn't on being able to say ''hey we've got an xx mbit connection - the fastest on the planet'' it is indeed being able to say ''download what you like when you like''after all..A phrase that NTL prided themselves on when the service was first launched many moons ago.
Short memories,eh ?

Personally i'd prefer to say ''i've got a Vauxhall Astra that i can drive whenever i want wherever i want'' as opposed to owning a Ferrari that i can only drive to the bottom of the street before it runs out of petrol,only to be told i can't fill up the tank til the next day

[nemesis01]

[quote=PaWs]

Originally Posted by LenMackin

''download what you like when you like''after all..A phrase that NTL prided themselves on when the service was first launched many moons ago

Yeh, and that was true for a few years but these days them seem to think less about the customers and more about lining their own pockets. 'Give Less, Earn More'. I still think it's a bit much to lock people into 512K for the remainder of their contracts, maybe 1-2 months would have been better. What is most shocking is the treatment you receive when you ring ntl and ask 'when is this gonna end'. They speak to you like crap, give you no hope for the future on ntl (info on more unlimited packages, even if they don't have any concrete info they still know it's gonna happen but they don't mention it) and generally don't care. No matter what, I am still an ntl customer and think I have a right to be spoken to with some dignity, not like a dog who has just releived itself on your new car, which is the manner I was spoken to in when I rang afew days ago. If it was not coming up to christmas I would have paid up the remainder of my contract and told them to p**s off, as it is that is not an option until around february.

[Rone]

I've got till march, now the good news is by then it should be obvious if the "up to 10 meg" and the generous 75gig cap are worth having.
At the moment i'm careful what we all download, by January i probably wont give a gnats chuff.
Its been said before, if NTL want a subscriber base of people who browse, they should be on 512, why would they need any faster?
Because it looks great on paper being a member of the fastest cable network in the country.

[Ignition]

Even in my heavier downloading days never used 75GB, that was downloading bits of everything, games, DVDs, albums, etc, etc. This was both having 2Mbit/s unlimited ADSL and as an ntl 3Mbit sub.

Only thing was I didn't feel the need to collect a load of garbage I didn't actually need. Do people really need 15+ DVDs a month? Are you ever actually going to watch that stuff? Probably not.

Another thing I actually find being told to go on a surfer's package because I don't download loads quite amusing. Some of us just like to get our occasional downloads done faster and its' our prerogative as the people who subsidise uneconomical use to do as we please.

No high paying low using customers = prices going up for those extracting the urine, fairly simple isn't it?

If you are stuck on 512k you're probably absolutely right, just phone up and ask to cancel and the people in retentions who have been commanded from on high to keep you whatever the cost will be quite happy to regrade you, discount you, love you, hug you and probably send the local 'working girls' around to service your manly needs (or the local giggolo for those ladies). ntl have minor issues understanding that retaining unprofitable customers doesn't equal profit so you should be alright

Always ignore most ntl salesmen, they tend to be full of faeces as most salesmen are, and will quite happily promise you that your cable modem / STB comes with a fellatio attachment if they think it'll help them get the sale - these are the dangers of commission based sales and why I personally try to avoid dealing with salesmen whose income is commission based.

Anyway please continue complaining, careful not to bite the hand that helps pay for you though Celebrate the low users don't dig at them

[Chrysalis]

Read on another forum posted by an ntl employee (but doesnt mean it will happen)

17.99 - 25 gig
24.99 - 50 gig
37.99 - 75 gig

Which would mean very good value for money for the lowest tier, ok value for the middle tier as well.

[poggy]

seems that NTL needed some more bandwidth on my street they needed to sell some new customers mmmmmmmmmmm so what to do i know lets squeeze the life out of some other people on the street that have gone over there tier and cap them hey we got extra bandwidth now sell sell sell if your on a cul da sac your fine my street 24 houses and more bandwidth needed oh hang on a sec aswell as getting there extra bandwidth less turn em down to 512 too and tell em its unlimited but its still nowhere near the speeds they were getting 2 and 3 years ago but lets not tell em why and lets not reply to any emails you send to ntl heaven forbid they ever reply to you over something they gonna have a hard time explaining or try to convince you its right coz you gotta be so gulable to believe owt that comes out there mouths just like in the early days awwwwwwww god bless em for still being able to screw the customers at a moments notice

[ouchiko]

Originally Posted by poggy

seems that NTL needed some more bandwidth on my street they needed to sell some new customers m......

I rarely say this kind of thing but you really need to use paragraphs, proper words and full stops. I ignored your entire post after the first line.....