Dutch to ban the wearing of the Burka?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by andyl

Reading the local rag is not exactly scientific

What if the 'local rag' uses reputable sources? Shouldn't you check that first before dismissing it out of hand?

Shabba - and still nothing to suggest the majority in Nelson comprises ethnic minorities. Indeed far more evidence to suggest otherwise.
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Originally Posted by Russ D

What if the 'local rag' uses reputable sources? Shouldn't you check that first before dismissing it out of hand?

No because I work with the media and consume news press voraciously. I've worked with the Nelson Leader in the past.

I've yet to come across a newspaper that identifies in court reports whether people are British born Muslims (unless of course it is relevant to the crime committed which would be exceedingly rare and hardly likely to account for the majority of crime in Nelson). Please do show me a newspaper that does though; it will be an education.

[the_beast666]

imho it should be banned here as well , we were at a local shopping centre on sunday and there was a woman wearing a burka , even though you could only see her eyes she looked annoyed / ****ed off etc

So we should ban burkas because you saw a woman who looked annoyed?

[the_beast666]

Originally Posted by andyl

So we should ban burkas because you saw a woman who looked annoyed?

just my personal opinion you understand

[punky]

Originally Posted by andyl

So we should ban burkas because you saw a woman who looked annoyed?

I guess you say that mockingly however... There IS a definite pressure from within the community to conform to the Koran, and women do have to suffer subjugation from their husbands/fathers. Banning them wouldn't help what goes on behind closed doors, but could help women who leave the house. On the other hand, if the husbands/fathers are like that, if the government ban burkas, then will the husbands/fathers just prevent the women from leaving the house?

I do say it mockingly.

Whilst I take on board your concern for women who may be subjugated, Muslim women do wear the burka because of ther own faith. Ban the burka and you deny them the right to adhere to that faith. Denial of religious expression is not healthy in a democratic state.
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Originally Posted by the_beast666

just my personal opinion you understand

You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't see the logic.

Originally Posted by andyl

I do say it mockingly.

Whilst I take on board your concern for women who may be subjugated, Muslim women do wear the burka because of ther own faith. Ban the burka and you deny them the right to adhere to that faith. Denial of religious expression is not healthy in a democratic state.
.

I do not like that statement. "Denial of religious expression is not healthy in a democratic state." what if it was voted for in a referendum and the vote went to ban the burka that then would be democratic would it not? but that would still be argued against

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

Latest figures state immigrants make a net annual contribution of, I believe, £2.5bn.

Hmmmm................. interesting figure but I have to make the point that since we don't actually know how many illegal immigrants we have in this country, we have no way of knowing what they cost us in lost revenues......to weigh against that £2.5bn.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by andyl

Latest figures state immigrants make a net annual contribution of, I believe, £2.5bn.

I would be interested to see what percentage of our population is immigrants, and how that percentage figures compared to the annual contribution they put in (we are a trillion pound economy).

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

I do not like that statement. "Denial of religious expression is not healthy in a democratic state." what if it was voted for in a referendum and the vote went to ban the burka that then would be democratic would it not? but that would still be argued against

Democracy is a somewhat more complicated than that.
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Originally Posted by Ramrod

Hmmmm................. interesting figure but I have to make the point that since we don't actually know how many illegal immigrants we have in this country, we have no way of knowing what they cost us in lost revenues......to weigh against that £2.5bn.

Who's employing illegal immigrants?

Originally Posted by Ignition

I would be interested to see what percentage of our population is immigrants, and how that percentage figures compared to the annual contribution they put in (we are a trillion pound economy).

a family local to us are waiting to see if they will be deported, while they have been here, the children have done well at school & their father has actually become a school governor. Their case has been supported by petition and the local church - my wife's school would love some more parent governors, none apply - something is wrong with our society, but not all of it can be blamed on 'asylum seekers' et al ........ in my opinion.

- they tend to wear fairly 'westernised' clothes - e.g. dad is a Lawyer & has grey suit , etc

iirc his wife wears a scarf, but not a full concealment of her face & 'shape', which I understand to be the purpose of the burqa??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

- as usual wikepedia is the db's

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

Who's employing illegal immigrants?

You mean that you don't know!
The building and catering industries for starters.....

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

You mean that you don't know!
The building and catering industries for starters.....

Not to mention £150 for a fake passport from government workers, and another £150 for NI number and documentation. You only find these things out by talking to people who are illegally in this country.

How does someone come up with a figure for immigrants contribution to the economy?

In my experience immigrants spend as little as possible in this country, whilst either sending money back home to their family or buying property in their home country.

It does seem a little ironic that the same people who stand up for immigrants also criticise people in this country who buy property for investment purposes. Two of the immigrants that I have been directly involved with have done exactly that, they come here and earn 10 times the wages in their home country and buy property back home as a nest egg for their retirement.
They are generally very mean with spending money here because they try to live as cheaply as possible.

I would of thought contributing to the economy beside paying tax means spending some of that money on beer, fags, petrol and material items.
These immigrants do generally not re-invest as much money back into this coutries economy as British people.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

You mean that you don't know!
The building and catering industries for starters.....

Agriculture too.

My point is that the people employting illegal immigrants are often drawn from the indigenous community, people who run employment agencies which are deliberately casual in their checking of identity and people who pay cash in hand (to avoid tax and Ni, something which on other threads seems to be applauded). Some very big UK companies are complicit in this, but hide behind the fact that they use agency staff for whom agencies are responsible.
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Originally Posted by Escapee

Not to mention £150 for a fake passport from government workers, and another £150 for NI number and documentation. You only find these things out by talking to people who are illegally in this country.

How does someone come up with a figure for immigrants contribution to the economy?

In my experience immigrants spend as little as possible in this country, whilst either sending money back home to their family or buying property in their home country.

It does seem a little ironic that the same people who stand up for immigrants also criticise people in this country who buy property for investment purposes. Two of the immigrants that I have been directly involved with have done exactly that, they come here and earn 10 times the wages in their home country and buy property back home as a nest egg for their retirement.
They are generally very mean with spending money here because they try to live as cheaply as possible.

I would of thought contributing to the economy beside paying tax means spending some of that money on beer, fags, petrol and material items.
These immigrants do generally not re-invest as much money back into this coutries economy as British people.

Yeah, yeah. You say the immigrants you know whilst displaying an obvious contempt for them and spouting anecdotal evidence which appears more grounded in your own prejudices than in fact. You could, of course, look into the subject in a little more detail; gain some knowledge from the many resources that exist out there and which can be found with just a little help from Mr. Google.