Dutch to ban the wearing of the Burka?

[basa]

Originally Posted by andyl

Hardly typical of Muslims in general and certainly not justification for preventing people adhering to their beliefs as followers of one of the world's major religions.

Unless of course you think all Muslims are terrorists. And all Irish people. And all animal lovers etc etc etc

Agreed all muslims are not terrorists (similarly Irish and animal lovers), but that is not to say *most* terrorists (today) are not muslims. (Note the double negative !).

That is where the fear comes from. I don't know many people who can distuinguish terrorists from non terrorists just from appearances but knowing someone is a muslim must increase the suspicion ... IMO.

Also with regards to beliefs .. whether those beliefs are acceptable in this country depends on what those beliefs are and if they involve degradation of women or infidels.

Originally Posted by basa

Agreed all muslims are not terrorists (similarly Irish and animal lovers), but that is not to say *most* terrorists (today) are not muslims. (Note the double negative !).

That is where the fear comes from. I don't know many people who can distuinguish terrorists from non terrorists just from appearances but knowing someone is a muslim must increase the suspicion ... IMO.

People might be more suspicuiouys through ignorance and stereotype - doesn't make it right though.

Also with regards to beliefs .. whether those beliefs are acceptable in this country depends on what those beliefs are and if they involve degradation of women or infidels.

As I've said before, I hold no religious beliefs but I will respect those held by others as long as they don't impinge on my rights or those of others. I do not support subjugation of women; that's why I've never voted Tory or read the Daily Mail (except for professional purposes!) .

I've yet to come across a Muslim who has tried to inflict his/her beliefs upon me, which is more than can be said of throughly annoying Christian door knockers.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by andyl

I've yet to come across a Muslim who has tried to inflict his/her beliefs upon me, which is more than can be said of throughly annoying Christian door knockers.

I agree, however christian groups are normally trying to recruit due to dwindling numbers. Muslim groups as a general rule dont seem to encourage outsiders from joining their religion.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

Hardly typical of Muslims in general and certainly not justification for preventing people adhering to their beliefs as followers of one of the world's major religions.

Unless of course you think all Muslims are terrorists.

No, but the (iirc) muslim council did make the point that atm all terrorists are muslims. (of course thats a bit of an exaggeration but it does show the extent of the problem when muslims say something like that about themselves)

[Graham M]

Doesnt nessesarily work in reverse tho does it?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Doesnt nessesarily work in reverse tho does it?

Hence that bit in brackets......?

Originally Posted by Ramrod

No, but the (iirc) muslim council did make the point that atm all terrorists are muslims. (of course thats a bit of an exaggeration but it does show the extent of the problem when muslims say something like that about themselves)

Have you got a link for that statement?

This is one of those "silly" threads. We all start off by discussing the Dutch proposal then end up with a malformed statement from the MCOGB that has absolutely no relevance!

Let's have a fair topic on the impact of forced multi-culturism and the effects (good or bad) it has had on the UK as a whole. It should not be based on colour or religion but what they have achieved and contributed to OUR culture.

I have some pretty strong points to make (some may call them generalisations) and i live in a town where the ethnic community has overtaken the indiginous population.

Let's not pussyfoot around this subject, it would be a good and proper guide to tolerance levels around the country.

Originally Posted by Shabba

This is one of those "silly" threads. We all start off by discussing the Dutch proposal then end up with a malformed statement from the MCOGB that has absolutely no relevance!

Let's have a fair topic on the impact of forced multi-culturism and the effects (good or bad) it has had on the UK as a whole. It should not be based on colour or religion but what they have achieved and contributed to OUR culture.

I have some pretty strong points to make (some may call them generalisations) and i live in a town where the ethnic community has overtaken the indiginous population.

Let's not pussyfoot around this subject, it would be a good and proper guide to tolerance levels around the country.

Leaving aside the contentious used of the word forced there were, according to the 2001 census, 6,247 people from ethnic minorities in Pendle and just under 31,000 in employment alone, so not sure where your claim to live in somewhere where the ethnic population has overtaken the "indigenous" comes from.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

Have you got a link for that statement?

link

link

(My bad-that statement wasn't issued by the muslim council of britain but by Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, general manager of Al- Arabiya news channel. His article appeared in the pan-Arabic newspaper Al-Sharq Al-Awsat.)

Originally Posted by andyl

Leaving aside the contentious used of the word forced

Why? At no point in history have the people of this country had a say as to how immigration is handled. I shall continue to say forced.

Originally Posted by andyl

there were, according to the 2001 census, 6,247 people from ethnic minorities in Pendle and just under 31,000 in employment alone

Do you want to read that again? I did say my town (Pendle is a Borough) and of course i could have supplied a link (two years ago) but, no such statistics apply to my town anymore.

If you can prove me wrong by finding the statistics for Nelson i will apologise

Not easy to find statistics for Nelson alone, but the borough would appear to have circa 13,500 ethnic minorities in a population of 90.000.

88.2 percent of East Lancs as a whole is classed as white (remainder broken down into mixed, Asian or Asian British, Black or Black British, Chines or other group). In Pendle you have 76,000 whites, with 12,500 Asians and British Asians comprising the biggest ethnic group. In Lancashire 5 wards have ethnic populations above 30% - Nelson isn't one of them (unless Whitefield is your manor)

Originally Posted by andyl

Nelson isn't one of them (unless Whitefield is your manor)

It is my "manor" and the information is taken from the last census. I can tell you now that the vast majority of crime reporting in the paper is all down to supposed British born muslims, does the census not mention the immigrant population on benefits?

Anyhow, this has nothing to do with the Dutch. Start a new thread on what forced multi-culturism has done for us and i'll reply to it.

[j52c]

Originally Posted by andyl

Leaving aside the contentious used of the word forced there were, according to the 2001 census, 6,247 people from ethnic minorities in Pendle and just under 31,000 in employment alone, so not sure where your claim to live in somewhere where the ethnic population has overtaken the "indigenous" comes from.

Those figures are out of date, we are almost the end of 2005, so please use uptodate figures al lot can happen in 5 years.

http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.action.html
The link makes very interesting reading, unless some people don't agree.
A quote from the page:-
'About two-thirds of annual population growth is directly due to excess immigration (more in than out), with one third due to natural increase (more births than deaths). If allowed to continue, according to the Office of National Statistics, more than 80% of future population growth will be due to net inward migration. The consequences of this scale of population growth can clearly be seen in plans to build at least a million new homes in the South-East, many of them on greenfield sites or suburban sites.'

Recently on the ITV Teletext Pages, there was an item which said that 60% of the children born in London during 2004 - 2005 were born to foreign mothers. (I will try and find the link)
Awaiting your comment.

Originally Posted by Shabba

It is my "manor" and the information is taken from the last census. I can tell you now that the vast majority of crime reporting in the paper is all down to supposed British born muslims, does the census not mention the immigrant population on benefits?

Anyhow, this has nothing to do with the Dutch. Start a new thread on what forced multi-culturism has done for us and i'll reply to it.

Er, you started the whole 'forced' multiculturalism thing remember? Reading the local rag is not exactly scientific and the old benefits argument reminds me of the cak the NF used to spout in the 70s when immigrants were both scrounging our benefits and taking our jobs.

Latest figures state immigrants make a net annual contribution of, I believe, £2.5bn.

EDIT: And how on earth could you know from newspaper reports whether somebody convicted is a British born Muslim?
__________________

Originally Posted by j52c

Those figures are out of date, we are almost the end of 2005, so please use uptodate figures al lot can happen in 5 years.

Think I'll stick with the Census rather than some dodgy looking right wing organisation if that's OK with you. Four (2005 minus 2001 = 4! ) years in terms of the Census is not out of date.