Transparent Proxy Question...

Originally Posted by IanUK

Its just another example of NTL's proxies causing problems that wouldn't affect about 98% of other ISPs' in the same way.

It shouldn't be up to individual users to have to contact site owners to change their coding, virtually every other ISP works fine with Rapidshare, because they don't use proxies.

Nicely made up figures (which is what they are, totally made up). FYI - AOL use proxies, as do Virgin & Freeserve (Freeserves may be optional, not sure) and a number of large US ISP's, as well as many others around the world. Do you really think that the makers of commercial proxy systems could survive if ntl were their only customer ? BTW, AOL's don't even pass on the client ip, so you are well stuffed with them.

[IanUK]

I knew Paul M the proxy savour would come along

Yes, 98% is made up, of course it is - I'm an end user not a techie, I just call it as I see it, just like you made up that Freeserve use Proxies (they did about 2 years ago, but don't now - I know I was with them when they quit using them)

AOL do, but as I've said on many occasions - they work fine for all sites I've come across (even rapidshare, but maybe thats luck)

Virgin is NTL I thought ?
If so then they hardly count do they ?

As for US ISP's, I'm in the UK, I don't care about ISP's I can't access, lets make a quick list shall we - to almost, but not quite, back up my 98% plucked from the air figure...

Tiscali,BT,Wanadoo/Freeserve,Demon,Claranet,Nildram,Bulldog,NDO,Pipex ,
UKONline,Easynet,Plusnet,OneTel and tons and tons more - oh and Telewest of course

So afaik, only AOL & NTL that use proxies out of hundreds of UK ISP's - looks like my 98% was roughly accurate to me...

In any case thats academic, I don't want to leave NTL, I'm happy with the service on all levels except the proxies - as I've said to Mick today - I know I'm going to have to lump it, and thats fine - but don't try and pretend that the proxies are a good thing, because they are not, without them web browsing would be far less hassle, but it would cost NTL more money presumably....

so I understand *why* they use them, but I don't have to like it

cheers

Ian

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by IanUK

Because I've been told that if NTL are not aware of the many proxy related problems/faults/oddities then they cannot fix them - I'm aware that NTL cannot fix this one themselves, but if enough people make them aware of it then they can perhaps put some pressure on Rapidshare (many have tried emailing rapidshare about proxies - they just answer that you need a pay account - fair enough, but other ISP's that don't use proxies can get the stuff for free)

Its just another example of NTL's proxies causing problems that wouldn't affect about 98% of other ISPs' in the same way.

It shouldn't be up to individual users to have to contact site owners to change their coding, virtually every other ISP works fine with Rapidshare, because they don't use proxies.

Ian you have spoken to that exec a number of times now, have you at any point not had his phone number or email address to send correspendance back to him?, the issue here is you are giving your feedback bypassing a lot of brick walls and telling others to send feedback via the normal way which doesnt work.
__________________

Originally Posted by IanUK

I knew Paul M the proxy savour would come along

Yes, 98% is made up, of course it is - I'm an end user not a techie, I just call it as I see it, just like you made up that Freeserve use Proxies (they did about 2 years ago, but don't now - I know I was with them when they quit using them)

AOL do, but as I've said on many occasions - they work fine for all sites I've come across (even rapidshare, but maybe thats luck)

Virgin is NTL I thought ?
If so then they hardly count do they ?

As for US ISP's, I'm in the UK, I don't care about ISP's I can't access, lets make a quick list shall we - to almost, but not quite, back up my 98% plucked from the air figure...

Tiscali,BT,Wanadoo/Freeserve,Demon,Claranet,Nildram,Bulldog,NDO,Pipex ,
UKONline,Easynet,Plusnet,OneTel and tons and tons more - oh and Telewest of course

So afaik, only AOL & NTL that use proxies out of hundreds of UK ISP's - looks like my 98% was roughly accurate to me...

In any case thats academic, I don't want to leave NTL, I'm happy with the service on all levels except the proxies - as I've said to Mick today - I know I'm going to have to lump it, and thats fine - but don't try and pretend that the proxies are a good thing, because they are not, without them web browsing would be far less hassle, but it would cost NTL more money presumably....

so I understand *why* they use them, but I don't have to like it

cheers

Ian

I would go as far as saying 90% of isps dont have transeperent proxies and it probably is a lot more liek you said, as mick hasnt gave me access to the contact I asked him to pass on an idea that those who want it pay £5 for a clean http experience, hopefully he will pass this on, even if 1% of ntl customers paid this which would be about 14000 thats an extra £60k a month in turnover which would more then likely cover the cost of the extra traffic, ntl keep telling us they have plenty spare capacity which they already pay for so higher utilisation doesnt cost them anything and they gain customer satisfaction and turnover from my idea.

Originally Posted by IanUK

I knew Paul M the proxy savour would come along

Proxy saviour, I don't think so, but someone has to answer your posts.

Originally Posted by IanUK

but don't try and pretend that the proxies are a good thing, because they are not, without them web browsing would be far less hassle

I don't pretend they are a good thing, I would be more than happy to see them gone forever - but I don't spend all day trying to pretend they are the root of all evil when they are not - 98% of the time they don't cause any problems (yes made up but I bet it's in the high 90's).

Just like everything else, you are not going to get a 100% problem free system but I see many things blamed on them in the forums that clearly aren't an ntl proxy problem (hotmail the other day was an example). Sites that block them due to heavy usage are not an ntl proxy fault.

Of course they do fail, and when they do it affects a lot of people, and is very annoying, and they also cause occasional problems due to not refreshing properly, and the fact that many (dumb) end systems see them as one ip is also a drawback - but the simple fact is that for the forseeable future we are stuck with them, and constant moaning about it in topic after topic is not going to change this. Accept them for what they are and try to work round the problems.

Chrysalis - an excellent idea, but almost certainly very difficult to do in practice.

[Scopeuk]

What would be really good but isnââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t going to happen would be if the proxy manufacturers were to introduce code that could detect the (semi-)standard error page received when you are blocked for excessive use and allow the client a direct http connection for that session.



I appreciate this is probably 10k times more difficult to implement than it sounds from the above but Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m sure it wouldnââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t be impossible but alas if such a package did (/does) exist it would probably be far to expensive for it to be rolled out by any major ISP.

[Ignition]

Chrysalis - nice idea but at the moment not doable.

Scopeuk, there's no standard error page and it'd be next to impossible to detect due to the permutations possible, quite easy to get a false positive, also it's not the proxies that decide whether a client gets a direct http sesison or not, it's the routers infront of the proxies that do WCCP (Cisco's Web Cache Control Protocol).

[Scopeuk]

like i said above its a pipe dream and from your post looks as if it whould take a huge overhaul ofthe entire network so its never going to happen its a lovley pipe dream though

[Chrysalis]

Out of interest do AOL use the same proxy techonology as NTL?

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Out of interest do AOL use the same proxy techonology as NTL?

I don't think so, as AOL do not pass on the client ip address like ntl do - which suggests they use something different.

[IanUK]

Ian you have spoken to that exec a number of times now, have you at any point not had his phone number or email address to send correspendance back to him?, the issue here is you are giving your feedback bypassing a lot of brick walls and telling others to send feedback via the normal way which doesnt work.

I'll post this again as my original posting(s) were deleted.

Yes I have spoken to him via email almost every day over the last fortnight, and I have been providing lists of sites that are not working with the Poplar Proxies, he tells me he is passing this info on to those that need to see it, and I had several calls from them with regards to Steampowered etc.

Most of my queries/complaints have been resolved now and *most* sites that I was complaining about work now, and also the Cogent issue is resolved although that was due to be resolved anyway I am told.
I would urge people to report stuff through Responstek from this site, as things are apparently only escalated after that has been done.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by IanUK

B

It shouldn't be up to individual users to have to contact site owners to change their coding, virtually every other ISP works fine with Rapidshare, because they don't use proxies.

You are absolutely right, they should not have to deal with poor website design and backend implamentation. It is not up to the end user to have to write to them, their designers should have the basic skills not to make such mistakes.

I agree that there is an issue with ntl's proxies, but a properly desgined site can easily deal with this issue, as the plethora of good "whats my IP?" sites prove.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by IanUK

I'll post this again as my original posting(s) were deleted.

Yes I have spoken to him via email almost every day over the last fortnight, and I have been providing lists of sites that are not working with the Poplar Proxies, he tells me he is passing this info on to those that need to see it, and I had several calls from them with regards to Steampowered etc.

Most of my queries/complaints have been resolved now and *most* sites that I was complaining about work now, and also the Cogent issue is resolved although that was due to be resolved anyway I am told.
I would urge people to report stuff through Responstek from this site, as things are apparently only escalated after that has been done.

Then you have answered my question and have his email address, so why not provide this to everyone who has an issue and they can get reported.

My second point it is clear that when you used responsetek yourself there was no response, you are telling us that he told you he had seen no complaints, but you know yourself you had filled in a responsetek, I have filled in a responsetek and I am sure others have done the same, what does this tell you? the resposnetek's are not been fed on, so can you please give me his email address thanks.

[IanUK]

Then you have answered my question and have his email address, so why not provide this to everyone who has an issue and they can get reported.

My second point it is clear that when you used responsetek yourself there was no response, you are telling us that he told you he had seen no complaints, but you know yourself you had filled in a responsetek, I have filled in a responsetek and I am sure others have done the same, what does this tell you? the resposnetek's are not been fed on, so can you please give me his email address thanks.

I know its frustrating, but I can't give you his email address, you will need to go through one of the team here, (If I'm wrong then please one of the team tell me and I'll tell Chrysalis his email address) - I was only passed onto him after normal channels failed in a big way to resolve my problems.

If your problems have not been answered after a reasonable period of time (it was about 2 weeks for me) then I'd suggest contacting Mick or one of the team here and they will pass on the details to you, Mick never told me the guys email address, he got him to email me.

[Chrysalis]

I first told mick about 2-3 weeks ago now, there was a period mick was away for a week and then he got back to me asking for more details and I responded and now I am waiting to see what happens, it maybe mick is just delayed so yes it is frustrating but believe me I myself have both reported it to tech support and used the responsetek, in fact tech support were told at least 3 or 4 times and the first few times were months ago this is why I am arguing the point that you have been told there has been no feedback.

--edit--

Actually it maybe I need to give mick another set of info as I did tell him I just want to concentrate on the cogent issue instead of the proxies, now cogent is working ok I can collate my data on the proxies and send that to him, as the problem I asked for help is now resolved.

ntl Statement Regarding proxy issues:-

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=35790

To keep the discussion flowing in one single thread - this one is now closed - Please use the above thread for further proxy issues discussion. Thanks.