NTL promoting copyright infringement - Page 24

downquark1 · 07-09-2003, 16:16

Quote:

Originally posted by dellwear
When was this Andre?

I know they are paranoid about this site, but this is going too far.

Good job you have a good password!

Can this go in another thread? I think it would be a good idea to keep this subject clean and unbiased.

07-09-2003, 16:16

Quote:

Originally posted by towny
This has been round in so many circles I'm getting dizzy.

Timewarrior, you need to look further than the end of your nose to understand this. Just because someone doesn't use the precise words, 'illegal downloads are great' doesn't mean that they are not suggesting that might be the case. And it is not a matter of chasing shadows or reading between the lines; it is a deliberately planned inference taargeted at gullible customers by a professional advertiser who should have known better.

It is not 'grassing' to report NTL for this. 'grassing' is a word used by criminals and schoolboys to try to intimidate others into not doing the right thing. Like it or not, there is a rule of Law in this country and there are people and organisations charged with upholding it. With the greatest of respect to all of you who oppose what I have done by reporting this to the ASA, but you do not have the right to decide whether NTL should get away with this. All I have done is report them to those who do have that right, and from now on the properly appointed people will make the decisions.

And you need to stop reading between the freakin lines at words thast simply just are not there. I also doubt highly that you are more professional than the people designing this advertisement. therefor you are condemning NTL before ALL facts are made clear.

As for the text I have made bold.
what gives you the right to decide this warranted reporting?
Why did you need to interfere and not simply let the relevant people investigate it anyway?
Had BT made the same advertisement would you have done the same?
Are you going to stop here, or are you going to get a lynch mob arranged for every slight mistake made by EVERY company?

Then why are you victimising NTL, that sadly is what this whole episode does amount to.
I have a passionate dislike for people that insist on "interfereing" yes my choice of word, but it seems to me they just coudnt wait to get one over on NTL.

Let it be noted, None of the people reporting incidents to the ASA in relation to this advertisement speak for neither myself nor my family I/we can not and will not condone such actions.

Lord Nikon · 07-09-2003, 16:17

Quote:

Originally posted by towny
[snip]
Lord Nikon, in your two suggested scenarios, what is the logic behind your suggestion that if ntl are reported for this, they get a big fine, but if the ASA spot it themselves, they get off with a warning? I don't see any difference in the severity of the breach of the Advertising Standards code just because they are caught by the 'police' instead of a member of the public.
[snip]

The difference lies not in the severity based on who reported it, but in whether or not the matter has been given significance in the public eye.

The legal system in the UK is such that matters in the public eye are dealt with much more severely than one which has an element of discretion.

Had the matter gone no further than the leeds weekly news, and the ASA had dealt with it then the chances are a warning would have been deemed acceptable.

Should it become mainstream UK news then the ASA will feel more obliged to make an example.

I shall quote the persecution of Gary Glitter as an example of this. (but I am in NO WAY comparing the 2, merely the treatment based on public knowlege)

Gary glitter took his PC in for repair, as do thousands of people daily. Child porn was found on his computer and the matter was reported to the police, he was prosecuted.

This has happened since with people who were not formerly media icons. Their names haven't been placed in the paper and they haven't been pursued ever since.

There was no evidence that he had been involved in the taking of the photos, yet he has been pursued ever since by the media around the world because of it.

Had he not been a media icon before this then the matter would probably not have been pursued as it was.

I am not saying NTL fall into the category of "media icon" but I AM saying that the more publicity a matter gets, then the more severe the penalties tend to be to make an example of them

downquark1 · 07-09-2003, 16:22

Quote:

As for the text I have made bold.
what gives you the right to decide this warranted reporting?

Any member of the public may report something that they consider illegal.

Quote:

Why did you need to interfere and not simply let the relevant people investigate it anyway?

Revelant people only investigate after a report is made

Quote:

Had BT made the same advertisement would you have done the same?

If it had come to my attention - yes

Quote:

Are you going to stop here, or are you going to get a lynch mob arranged for every slight mistake made by EVERY company?

As a community dedicated to NTL who else should we be watching???

07-09-2003, 16:26

sorry guys, some horrible family news, my cousin died at 5:15pm.

Please excuse me whilst I leave to be with my family at this time.

Russ · 07-09-2003, 16:28

In that case you prolly won't be here to read this but my thoughts are with you.

Shaun · 07-09-2003, 16:31

Quote:

Originally posted by timewarrior2001
sorry guys, some horrible family news, my cousin died at 5:15pm.

Please excuse me whilst I leave to be with my family at this time.

Take care mate, we're thinking of you.

Bill Payer · 07-09-2003, 16:31

Quote:

Originally posted by timewarrior2001
Highlight on the actuall article where it say NTL insist you use your connection illegaly.

Where in the Advertisement,for that is what it is-Not an article,does it say that downloading movies like Spiderman is illegal?
I showed that advert to a friend who is,shall we say,"not too bright when it comes to computers & the internet".She was impressed that films like Spiderman were freely available.
Had NTL left it at the

Quote:

...600,000 movies

bit that would have been OK,but by mentioning Spiderman they give the impression that it is legally available to download.
Some of us know what is & what is not legally available.It is our choice if we wish to download those movies that we shouldn't.
Some people don't know.Some believe that because they own an album on CD they are entitled to store a copy,in mp3 format,on their PC or mp3 player.Why not,we did the same with LPs & cassettes.But,you only own a copy of the music.You are not legally entitled to make copies.
But,I digress.
NTL left themselves open to criticism by mentioning Spiderman.Someone within NTL is going to get his/her ar$e kicked over this.

**Chris** · 07-09-2003, 16:37

Quote:

Originally posted by timewarrior2001
And you need to stop reading between the freakin lines at words thast simply just are not there.

The meaning of the advert is the whole point of contention and the proper, legally appointed body is now looking in to it. I will be happy to be proven wrong in my interpretation, and I hope you will be happy if you are proven wrong.

Quote:

I also doubt highly that you are more professional than the people designing this advertisement. therefor you are condemning NTL before ALL facts are made clear.

I am a fully qualified journalist with three years experience at a regional newspaper and a further 4-and-a-half years experience of Corporate Communications at an international hotel company. I am perfectly professional and experienced enough to come to my own conclusions, thank you. I am not, however, qualified to condemn, and you are not qualified to exonerate. Those with the jobs at the ASA are, and they will decide.

Quote:

As for the text I have made bold.
what gives you the right to decide this warranted reporting?

I don't have that right, and neither do you. The ASA has that right. I have the right, granted me by UK law, to ask the ASA to decide. That is what I have done. If ntl get a fine, it will be because the ASA decide they have committed an offence, not because I have judged and condemned ntl.

Quote:

Why did you need to interfere and not simply let the relevant people investigate it anyway?

The relevant people areinvestigating it. I don't understand your point here. In what way am I 'interfering'?

Had BT made the same advertisement would you have done the same? as an ntl customer I feel a sense of affinity with the company and its practices that is stronger than that which I have for those with whom I have no such relationship. Every brand desires a relationship with its customers ... that's what builds brand loyalty. I would imagine that BT, about which I care far less, would have had to do something far more heinous before I would complain about them.

Quote:

Are you going to stop here, or are you going to get a lynch mob arranged for every slight mistake made by EVERY company?

Your attempt to make this issue seem trivial by drawing ridiculously extreme conclusions is transparent and quite silly. I have tried to keep my comments on this subject confined to the narrow legal issue of whether ntl have committed an offence or not. I hope you can try to do the same.

Quote:

Then why are you victimising NTL, that sadly is what this whole episode does amount to.

That is so plainly not my intent to anyone who has actually read my posts, that I see no point responding to you on this.

Quote:

I have a passionate dislike for people that insist on "interfereing" yes my choice of word,

Great, someone who would rather walk on by than actually be bothered whether what they're seeing is acceptable or not. How community spirited of you.

Quote:

but it seems to me they just coudnt wait to get one over on NTL.

Again, I am not going to wear out my keyboard any further re-stating my position on this.

Quote:

Let it be noted, None of the people reporting incidents to the ASA in relation to this advertisement speak for neither myself nor my family I/we can not and will not condone such actions.

Firstly, ntl's action is offensive to me. With the greatest respect to your family, this is nothing to do with them.
Secondly, who do you think you are that you need to 'condone' my action in using a legitimate, legal process for its correctly intended use?

downquark1 · 07-09-2003, 16:44

Quote:

I am a fully qualified journalist with three years experience at a regional newspaper

I can tell, I've said what you said in just 4 lines

(just kidding)

07-09-2003, 17:06

Quote:

Originally posted by towny

Great, someone who would rather walk on by than actually be bothered whether what they're seeing is acceptable or not. How community spirited of you.

Firstly, ntl's action is offensive to me. With the greatest respect to your family, this is nothing to do with them.
Secondly, who do you think you are that you need to 'condone' my action in using a legitimate, legal process for its correctly intended use?

edit withdrawn comment, I misread what towny said.

russ thanks for your kind words at this time.

But in reply to some of the comments made:-

I am not going to explain my thoughts and my actions at this time I quite frankly have more things to think about right now.

downquark1 · 07-09-2003, 17:12

Quote:

I am not going to explain my thoughts and my actions at this time I quite frankly have more things to think about right now.

With all due respect, why are you still here then?

blackthorn · 07-09-2003, 19:06

This has been a very interesting thread with good arguments from both sides but theres no need to get personal. Have a rest guys.

Shaun · 07-09-2003, 19:59

Quote:

Originally posted by blackthorn
This has been a very interesting thread with good arguments from both sides but theres no need to get personal. Have a rest guys.

I'm glad you think so, we all try our best to entertain:p

alodis · 07-09-2003, 21:10

shall we all go and get lives now?