Coop Bars Christian Voice For Anti-Homosexual Views

[Russ]

Originally Posted by whyme38

I suppose that they should be admired for putting principals before profit having said that I think it is a shame that people are not more tolerant about other peoples lifestyles

How can you say they are not tolerant? Does the evangelical movement in question go around petrol bombing homosexuals' homes? Do they go about "gay-bashing"? Or do they just speak out against a lifestyle they feel is sinful? Would you say a local neighbourhood watch group is being intolerant at speaking out against gangs on youths/hoodies who congregate outside shops? Do they take the time to get to know the kids in question or do they just feel uncomfortable about them being there?

Just because a group dislikes a certain lifestyle and speaks out about it does not IMO make them intolerant - everyone is entitled to dislike a section or group in society - it's the people who beat them up, torch their homes and campaign to get them moved on who are the intolerant ones surely?

Christian Voice's response: http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/Press/press001.html

"Stephen Green retorted: †œOf course we make †˜discriminatory pronouncements on grounds of sexual orientationâââ€Å ¡Ã‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢. We have been criticising homosexual rights ever since we started eleven years ago. Standing up for righteousness is what we do. www.christianvoice.org,uk In fact you could say there are dozens of such pronouncements in my own book †œThe Sexual Dead-Endââ‚Âà ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ�, which was published in 1992. It is a conviction of our Christian faith that homosexual activity is sinful; in fact that it is an abomination in the eyes of God. It is also a conviction of ours that the Lord Jesus shed His precious blood to forgive the sins of all who put their trust in Him, including sexually-active homosexuals. We told the Co-op bank when we switched to them three years ago that we were a voice for Biblical values and that we promote traditional family life. They raised no problem with that at all, and at no time did they tell us about their militant pro-homosexuality."

Abomination, as opposed to sinful, is a pretty strong word.

[Jules]

I do not condemn some one for being a Christian as long as it does no one any harm I also do not condemn some one for there sexual preferences as long as they are doing no harm. I thought being a Christian was about understanding and forgiveness?

[Russ]

I must say judging from that statement they seem to be pretty strong in their views however I see nothing which makes them intolerant. They are speaking out against what they see is wrong and they are entitled to do so. Being a Christian does not mean you have to agree with everyone and everything. I have to say that the last 2 lines of that statement say enough to make me take their side against the Co-op's stance.

Russ - Do you think the Co-op is "militantly pro-homesexual" (whatever that means!)? I'd put their position closer to tolerance of different lifestyles. Their argument seems not to be that CV cannot be entitled to hold a view that homesexuality is sinful, but that they cannot promote a "hateful" message about homesexuality and homosexuals and remain a Co-op customer.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by andyl

Russ - Do you think the Co-op is "militantly pro-homesexual" (whatever that means!)?

No, I don't think that's a correct assessment of the Co-op but it's the sort of description you could expect from a group so against homosexuality

Originally Posted by andyl

I'd put their position closer to tolerance of different lifestyles. Their argument seems not to be that CV cannot be entitled to hold a view that homesexuality is sinful, but that they cannot promote a "hateful" message about homesexuality and homosexuals and remain a Co-op customer.

I don't see CV (so far) promoting a hateful message which I think you'll agree is a subjective expression. I haven't yet read enough in to their ethos to decide whether or not their stance can truly be considered hateful when many liberals (and I'm not aiming that specifically at you) consider most/any people or groups against homosexuality to be 'hateful'.

The Co-op would have been aware of their views when the account was opened so unless CV had recently undertaken a campaign of violence or crime against homosexuals, I see this as little more than a PR stunt.

Originally Posted by Russ D

I don't see CV (so far) promoting a hateful message which I think you'll agree is a subjective expression. I haven't yet read enough in to their ethos to decide whether or not their stance can truly be considered hateful when many liberals (and I'm not aiming that specifically at you) consider most/any people or groups against homosexuality to be 'hateful'.

The Co-op would have been aware of their views when the account was opened so unless CV had recently undertaken a campaign of violence or crime against homosexuals, I see this as little more than a PR stunt.

I'm not sure why the Co-op has used the term 'hateful' myself although some of the pronouncements on the CV website, as we have seen, are pretty strong.

And yes, the Co-op either made a mistake when accepting CV or it is a PR stunt of which they are quite capable. Looking at the reporting (media and CV), it may be a bit of both.

[punky]

I think the key phrase is this:

We have been criticising homosexual rights

Criticising gay people for their lifestyle choice is one thing (which people should be able to do, same as if they chose drugs), but it is an entirely another thing when you try and deminish their basic rights as a human being, for being gay. That is most certainly not on. Gay or not gay, they unquestionably should have the same human rights. I'll be interested to know what rights homosexuals have that CV doesn't want them to. I think they'll certainly agree with that other Christian group who said the other day that gays should be branded with warning labels to protect non-gay people from them

EDIT: Article about the warning labels: http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/06/061305pride.htm
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Theocra...seesholtz.html

[allieyoung666]

I think the Co-op has done right and good on them, we are not in the dark ages anymore and people should be able to express their sexuality quite freely with out fear of being gay bashed. And yes lots of my friends are gay and I am always sticking up for them, if more compaines did things like this, then maybe this country would not be seen as a walk over!

[danielf]

Originally Posted by punky

EDIT: Article about the warning labels: http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/06/061305pride.htm

Originally Posted by from-that-link

(New York City) The leader of a conservative Christian lobby group appears to suggest that gays should be required to wear warning labels, although he denies that was his intention.

"We put warning labels on cigarette packs because we know that smoking takes one to two years off the average life span, yet we 'celebrate' a lifestyle that we know spreads every kind of sexually transmitted disease and takes at least 20 years off the average life span according to the 2005 issue of the revered scientific journal Psychological Reports," Rev. Bill Banuchi, executive director of the New York Christian Coalition told the Mid Hudson News.

The journal regularly publishes articles described by many mainstream psychologists as misleading and faulty. The homosexuality morbidity study was conducted by the conservative anti-gay Family Research Institute.

WTF????

They could certainly be construed as harassing gay people; "The letter [from CV to constabularies] complained about policemen and women marching in full uniform in the London Gay Pride March 26/07/2003 and urged Chief Constables to stop actively recruiting homosexuals."
http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/police.html

[punky]

Originally Posted by danielf

WTF????

I know.. F-n terrible isn't it? No sane rational person could believe it, and even as that article said all its evidence is flawed, but there are so many people out there who'll lap this crap up, because it is what they want to hear...

[allieyoung666]

It makes me sick and suppose these people are perfect and have never ever done anything wrong?

[Graham]

Originally Posted by dezzo

I don't think banks etc. should decide who is and who isn't allowed to hold an account.

Err, banks are businesses and are free to choose who can or cannot have an account with them. They don't have to justify their reasoning.
__________________

Originally Posted by Pierre

I trust they will not be letting any Islamic groups open an account with them also? As they too oppose homosexuality.

Not all Islamic groups hold to the strict interpretation of the Koran, just as many Christian groups don't consider homosexuality to be an abomination either.
__________________

Originally Posted by andyl

Christian Voice's response: http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/Press/press001.html

"Stephen Green retorted: †œOf course we make †˜discriminatory pronouncements on grounds of sexual orientationââ ¡Ã‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢. We have been criticising homosexual rights ever since we started eleven years ago.

Ah, now this puts a slightly different complexion on matters. If they want to object to homosexuality, that's their business, but when they say that others should be *denied* rights because *they* don't like it, that's another matter entirely.

We told the Co-op bank when we switched to them three years ago that we were a voice for Biblical values and that we promote traditional family life. They raised no problem with that at all, and at no time did they tell us about their militant pro-homosexuality."

"Militant pro-homosexuality"? Oh dear, now they're getting a bit desperate! And just because they say "we are a voice for Biblical values and promote traditional family life" doesn't mean that they said: "we think that *you* shouldn't treat these people the same as everyone else because *we* don't like what they do".

IMO in this case the Co-op did the right thing.
__________________

Originally Posted by danielf

WTF????

I don't know whether to or

[orangebird]

What a bunch of hypoctrical ignoramuses the CV are. Good on the Co-op AFAIC.