NTL promoting copyright infringement - Page 18

kronas · 05-09-2003, 17:25

Quote:

Originally posted by dellwear
The customer decided what to use a gun for but you don't see any manufacturers saying 'Our x4564 was used in the Dunblane massacre' do you?

now your using stupid analoges what has a gun got to do with downloading movies ?

Shaun · 05-09-2003, 17:30

Quote:

Originally posted by timewarrior2001
SWAT teams etc use their firearms.

Heckler and koch being one.
Berretta another i beleive.

SWAT teams are a different issue, its like saying NTL B/B is used by the MOD for part of their communications, its not the same.

And another point, (not aimed at you Lord Nikon) some of you have said that NTL have done wrong, and ****ged off what members have done, which is their right, but not said what you think should be done. I think you should tell us you master plan, I'm interested.

Shaun · 05-09-2003, 17:36

Quote:

Originally posted by kronas
now your using stupid analoges what has a gun got to do with downloading movies ?

An analogy is just that K, I'm sorry, I don't think NTL should have used this as a marketing tactic, yes it goes on, yes most of us have done it at some point, but, at this point in time it is illegal, and in using it in this way NTL have incited people to commit a crime. Further to that Ntl will be 'contacting' (I use that work in the loosest term of the word) new customers that may have signed up to D/L movies to tell them that they have exceeded the AUP.

Personally K, I think that NTL have shown their real feelings here, 'sod everything, as long as we make some money'.

I have d/l stuff in the past and would again, because the stuff I want is either out of print or unavailable. But to encourage people to break the law is not right.

kronas · 05-09-2003, 17:46

Quote:

Originally posted by dellwear
An analogy is just that K, I'm sorry, I don't think NTL should have used this as a marketing tactic, yes it goes on, yes most of us have done it at some point, but, at this point in time it is illegal,

they are making people aware of what you can do on the net its wrong but i dont see a direct link anywhere about downloading movies do you ?

Quote:

Originally posted by dellwear

and in using it in this way NTL have incited people to commit a crime.

how they are making people aware of whats available on the net

Quote:

Originally posted by dellwear

Further to that Ntl will be 'contacting' (I use that work in the loosest term of the word) new customers that may have signed up to D/L movies to tell them that they have exceeded the AUP.

read the damn service update it says 3 days in a 14 day consecutive period so you can go over the limit 2 days within the 14 days period just not 3 or more

Quote:

Originally posted by dellwear

Personally K, I think that NTL have shown their real feelings here, 'sod everything, as long as we make some money'.

every company is out for your money NTL are no diffarent

th'engineer · 05-09-2003, 17:58

thats why they should be honest in there advertisments about the services and not give the wrong impression.

Other wise it will lead to churn.

kronas · 05-09-2003, 18:01

Quote:

Originally posted by th'engineer
thats why they should be honest in there advertisments about the services and not give the wrong impression.

where is the dishonesty in that particular article ?

th'engineer · 05-09-2003, 18:02

the impression of how many you can download

duncant403 · 05-09-2003, 18:05

Just to put the extract I scanned into context of the rest of the advert, you can see the rest of it here:

(It was too large to scan, so I've photographed it. It's not amazingly clear, but you can read most of the text...)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/duncan....3/NTL_ad_1.JPG
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/duncan....3/NTL_ad_2.JPG
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/duncan....3/NTL_ad_3.JPG
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/duncan....3/NTL_ad_4.JPG

05-09-2003, 18:06

:wall:

That was the Bang head on wall smiley

kronas · 05-09-2003, 18:07

Quote:

Originally posted by th'engineer
the impression of how many you can download

where is that it only mentions how many they estimate are downloaded every day on there network

Shaun · 05-09-2003, 18:09

Quote:

Originally posted by kronas
where is that it only mentions how many they estimate are downloaded every day on there network

We don't know K, it doesn't state where the facts come from.

kronas · 05-09-2003, 18:13

Quote:

Originally posted by dellwear
We don't know K, it doesn't state where the facts come from.

they know it goes on and so do i and everyone else maybe they do moniter what people do

but the point was made that they are misleading about how many you can download and that is not mentioned anyway so cannot be false

**Chris** · 05-09-2003, 18:18

The key to all this is CONTEXT.

I posted this earlier today but as this thread is now so long I don't suppose anyone logging on now is going to bother to read everything that's gone before.

Look at the overall headline of the advert. It says:

Quote:

Award-winning broadband

and the sub-heading says:

Quote:

Have we got an internet service for you!

Thus NTL's intent is clearly to tell you how good broadband is, and how good their broadband service is.

In support of the claims they make, they have a sidebar with its own headline that says:

Quote:

Don't just take our word for it

Don't just take our word for what? Clearly, 'our award-winning broadband service is great, you can browse more and faster and it's low priced compared with the rest of Europe. But don't just take our word for it. Look at some of the great things you can do with broadband: ... '

And so on, including the facts about movie downloads and Spiderman.

Now, if these facts were quoted in a different CONTEXT, say in a newspaper report, there would be nothing wrong. They are simply statements about activities that are illegal. However, they are not in a newspaper report. They are in an advert, and that advert's CONTEXT is 'Broadband's great, look what you can do with it:' And the things stated are illegal. This is a breach of the ASA code, which says it is not allowed for an advertiser to incite a crime, and may also be a criminal offence.

This is a simple, straightforward account of the facts in this case. You can argue forever about whether p2p should be allowed, whether you can copy CDs you own, whether any of it makes any difference in the long run. But the fact is, NTL have arguably committed an illegal act and in any civil society, illegal acts carry penalties that they will have to face if they are convicted.

th'engineer · 05-09-2003, 18:22

Hence
British Code of Advertising, Sales
Promotion and Direct Marketing (the rulebook used by the ASA) states:

2.2 All marketing communications should be prepared with a sense of
responsibility to consumers and to society.

4.1 Marketers have primary responsibility for ensuring that their
marketing communications are legal. Marketing communications should comply
with the law and should not incite anyone to break it.

**Chris** · 05-09-2003, 19:11

And hence why I reported them to the ASA this morning. We will see if I am right or not.