Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!

[cookie_365]

Originally Posted by scastle

Don't we? Although a hetero myself, I have enough gay friends to have a fairly good idea of what does on..

See earlier exchange of posts with ZrByte

Originally Posted by Russ D

Well for a start, they'll need to think up another version of "the birds and the bees"....

Why do they need to think up some story? Why not just explain to the child honestly and truthfully what happened?

Bringing up a child successfully is about a LOT more than making sure the it is loved!!!

Yet heterosexual couples, even those who are completely unsuited to bringing up children in a loving environment (cf the couple who used to live above me) are permitted, indeed *encouraged* to bring children into this world without any restriction whatsoever.

How about everyone who wants to be parents having to undergo as stringent an examination as adoptees (instead of just doing the "practical")? Maybe then we'd have less in the way of anti-social behaviour from children!
__________________

Originally Posted by scastle

Graham's website sells adult "toys" and leather gear. I don't know the what percentage of his clientelle is Gay, but I suspect Heterosexuals make up a large percentage as well.

I have no idea what percentage of my clientele is gay, straight or anything in between, neither do I care, as long as they're spending money!

In all fairness, Graham, Russ is entitled to form his own opinion based on whatever he considers evidence (even though you and I may not agree it is evidence).

Of course he's entitled to form any opinion, just as NitroNutter is.

But if they post them in a public forum they shouldn't be surprised or get upset if someone else wants to challenge those opinions.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Graham

But if they post them in a public forum they shouldn't be surprised or get upset if someone else wants to challenge those opinions.

Perhaps it's the way you demand a response and the way you take it upon yourself to try and debunk their opinions when they don't feel inclined to produce the level of 'evidence' you fiercely demand.

If you wish to discuss this further, please do so in PM.

Originally Posted by Russ D

You wish.

Yes, Russ, I wish you'd try to engage in a reasoned debate instead of simply getting on your high horse when someone doesn't want to take your opinion as fact without proof.

No Graham. What just about all of us realise is no matter what we say, Graham is 'always right'. I don't have to back up why I believe something or why I see something the way I do. Even if I did produce something, you'd still do your best to wriggle your way out of it simply because you don't agree with it.

Oh dear, Russ, you're getting desperate now.

Firstly, whatever you may claim, I do not, have not and never would claim that I am "always right".

Secondly, no, you don't have to back up anything you say, but if you want to have a reasoned debate, it would be a good idea to demonstrate why you consider your opinion to be valid, rather than just, it appears, insisting that *you* are right and that you don't have to prove it!

Thirdly, "even if you did produce something...", is a nice little cop out since you *haven't* produced anything!!!

Well it's like this - I really can't be bothered with you anymore. You cannot be reasoned with and you refuse to see things any way other than your own.

ROFLALALALAL!

Paging Messer Pott and Kettle-Black once more...

So that is why I did that smilie - I'd rather beat my head against a brick wall that try and get a point through to you.

The other possible corollary is that you *haven't* made a valid point that is worth acknowledging, you've only stated opinions with nothing to back them up.

Of course without any evidence, that's difficult to prove, isn't it?!
__________________

Originally Posted by Russ D

Perhaps it's the way you demand a response and the way you take it upon yourself to try and debunk their opinions when they don't feel inclined to produce the level of 'evidence' you fiercely demand.

If someone is going to post an opinion in a *PUBLIC FORUM* that I disagree with, I have every right to ask them to back it up with some facts and question the validity of their opinions.

Everyone has the right to an opinion, nobody, however, has the right to insist that their opinions not be challenged!

If you wish to discuss this further, please do so in PM.

You posted this in public Russ, I have the right to reply to it in public.

If you wish to take it to PMs, feel free to do so.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Graham

I have no idea what percentage of my clientele is gay, straight or anything in between, neither do I care, as long as they're spending money!

I didn't think you would know.. I didn't imagine you stood there at the counter saying "Here are your handcuffs, will you be using them with your boyfriend or your girlfriend?". I was actually trying to make the point you don't necessarily sell to just Homosexuals or Heterosexuals.

Of course he's entitled to form any opinion, just as NitroNutter is.

But if they post them in a public forum they shouldn't be surprised or get upset if someone else wants to challenge those opinions.

Fair enough. That is part of what makes the forum fun.. I did get the impression though that Russ was presenting his opinions, which (as I said earlier) he may or may not be able to back up with evidence.

Originally Posted by scastle

I was actually trying to make the point you don't necessarily sell to just Homosexuals or Heterosexuals.

I'd sell to sheep if they had the money...!

(NO, that's *not* another Welsh joke! )

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by Graham

Please will you *TRY* to understand the difference between a suicide bomber trying to commit mass murder on innocent victims and *consenting* adults minding their own business and not being told what they can or cannot do by someone who has no interest in participating in that form of behaviour!

Minding your own business, now your having a laugh, at your own expense, if they did do that it would hardly exist, one of the points of my argument is just that, they have to approach people in the hopes that they have come accross a *consenting* adult, and simple words like F off im not that way inclined seems to be incomprehensible to many of them and heres the difference again.

Guy approaches woman, woman says f off, guy carries on trying, if he dont get the message woman knees man where it hurts and says understand now ?

Guy approaches guy, guy says get screwed, Im not into that, The Gay keeps on and on failing to comprehend the answer so the straight guy duffs the puff and now he is classed a homophobic gay basher.

Of course theres the alternative outcome to both these scenarios, where the guy doing the come on acheives a forceful unwanted goal.

Now back to the topic of the children being adopted, how are they as parents going to encourage the child to beleive and dream of a life long true love as a hetrosexual type relationship when the parents are really demonstrating either the 2 ugly sisters from cinderella as a way of living or the slipper fitted Dick wittington ?

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

one of the points of my argument is just that, they have to approach people in the hopes that they have come accross a *consenting* adult, and simple words like F off im not that way inclined seems to be incomprehensible to many of them and heres the difference again.

That's a nice big brush you are tarring the entire gay community with.

I'm sorry you seem to have had some bad personal experiences, but I really don't think this sort of sweeping generalisation is valid or helpful, nor are implicit accusations of rapist behaviour.

Now back to the topic of the children being adopted, how are they as parents going to encourage the child to beleive and dream of a life long true love as a hetrosexual type relationship when the parents are really demonstrating either the 2 ugly sisters from cinderella as a way of living or the slipper fitted Dick wittington ?

Well I don't recall my parents ever encouraging me to "believe and dream of a life long true love as a heterosexual", but there again, I don't think that most gay adoptive parents would attempt to convince their child that "gay is the *only* way to go" and that they shouldn't have anything to do with those horrible heterosexuals.

Personally I'd be happy if *any* parents brought up their child with the attitude that what other people choose to do with their lives is *their* business and that their child shouldn't be judgemental or prejudiced simply because it doesn't fit in with that child's (or the parent's) personal beliefs.

If more people did that, maybe the world would be a happier place.

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by scastle

I didn't think you would know.. I didn't imagine you stood there at the counter saying "Here are your handcuffs, will you be using them with your boyfriend or your girlfriend?". I was actually trying to make the point you don't necessarily sell to just Homosexuals or Heterosexuals.

That wasnt the point I was making tho, Im damn sure he does have hetro customers, but that doesnt mean he wont have gay ones either, sex goods is his business and he dont care what sexuallity buys what, its money and thats the point.

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

he dont care what sexuallity buys what, its money and thats the point.

Of course I don't, why should I???

But meeting the people I've encountered through the business has helped me develop an attitude that "Live and let live" is by far the best way to get along in the world.

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by Graham

That's a nice big brush you are tarring the entire gay community with.

Twice in one thread mate you are getting good at this I said many you make it appear that I mean entire ? I think you need to go read a dictionary as different words mean different things

Originally Posted by Graham

I'm sorry you seem to have had some bad personal experiences, but I really don't think this sort of sweeping generalisation is valid or helpful, nor are implicit accusations of rapist behaviour.

You failed to grasp the fact that in both the possible outcomes on each the straight being suffered the gay cannot win if the gay is over persistent

Originally Posted by Graham

Well I don't recall my parents ever encouraging me to "believe and dream of a life long true love as a heterosexual", but there again, I don't think that most gay adoptive parents would attempt to convince their child that "gay is the *only* way to go" and that they shouldn't have anything to do with those horrible heterosexuals.

So you never had stories read to you as a young child, ones that would conflict with the lifestyle the child is being brought up in if gay adoption went ahead. And you dont in any way consider the child would suffer somemajor confusion issues there too ?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

And you dont in any way consider the child would suffer somemajor confusion issues there too ?

Is there any professional evidence showing that there is or isn't a detrimental effect on a child's upbringing by same sex couples?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

That wasnt the point I was making tho, Im damn sure he does have hetro customers, but that doesnt mean he wont have gay ones either, sex goods is his business and he dont care what sexuallity buys what, its money and thats the point.

So what is the point? Why did you say "I do wonder also with Graham if I remember correctly he has a form of adult website wether theres any bias in his opinions as that is his living, or a part of it.", unless you were trying to infer his opinions were biased by the fact that he sells to Gay people?

I do technical support for computer users. Some of whom I know for a fact are gay. Does that mean my opinion is biased by this? Of course it doesn't. To me, a user is a user regardless of who they sleep with. I think it's the same for Graham. As long as they pay the money, a customer is a customer regardless of who they sleep with. I really don't see what relevance the fact that Graham deals with some gay customers has to do with a gay couple being suitable candidates for adoption.

I see the attitude of certain members hasn't changed much. Please calm down and refrain from digs at each other, or yet another topic will be closed.

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

You failed to grasp the fact that in both the possible outcomes on each the straight being suffered the gay cannot win if the gay is over persistent

Ah, now here we see the logical fallacy of the False Dilemma turning up once again. You present two options as if they are the *only* possible outcomes, but that's by no means the case.

Also in a previous message I asked what you would do if it was a *woman* that was being overly persistant, but you didn't answer, so let me ask you again, what would you do in that situation??

So you never had stories read to you as a young child, ones that would conflict with the lifestyle the child is being brought up in if gay adoption went ahead. And you dont in any way consider the child would suffer somemajor confusion issues there too ?

You mean stories that traditionally end "and they got married and lived happily ever after"? (Which, BTW, is the probably one of the biggest and most long running lies ever told to children!!)

But what of it? Are those "major confusion issues" that you appear to be so concerned about *really* going to warp a child's development, let alone their sexual development? I don't think so.

And there's books out there like "Heather has two mommies" which are designed to teach children that other forms of emotional attachment are just as "natural" as heterosexuality. What they *don't* try to do is to convince the child that it's the *only* way.

When children ask questions, just tell them the truth. It tends to work.