Vote 2005 week 3, with another new poll

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Gogogo

If these workers come from a country within the European Union then they are legally working here. Even so the numbers do not constitute cause for concern. The immigration service staff will get quite annoyed everytime Mr. Howard repeats his claims. The situation is not serious at all.

It is ridiculous to keep saying that immigration is not controlled, only yesterday I heard of a Zimbabean asylum seeker quite cruely, unjustly being deported, as many others have been and still are.

Did I say they were people from inside the EU? I thought I made it clear by saying they were illegally living and working here. They were from non-EU eastern european countries. I find it amusing that you say immigration is controlled, but when I point out specific cases you say the numbers aren't worth worrying about. If I pointed out a high-rise with 1000 in it, would that be 'cause for concern'? This is just a couple of houses that I personally know the whereabouts of. Do you honestly think these are the only ones around the London area, or the UK? If you do, then you're very naive. I point you back to the article I linked to in the week 2 thread, which you either didn't see or chose not to reply to as it doesn't back up your view. The government itself conservatively estimates over half a million illegal immigrants living inside the UK. Immigration is not controlled. How can it be controlled when we let people into this country on holiday or short term visas, but don't keep a check to see if they leave or not.

This ex-girlfriend of mine had a friend who came over around the same time and had already been deported from Ireland for overstaying her visa and working when she shouldn't. She had a stamp in her passport to this end, but this was taken care of with a bit of money to the right person and then voila, she was able to get a short-term student visa to the UK from one of our consulates. When she got here, she didn't even register with the college. She started working in a large heathrow hotel and living in one of these houses, but found the house too crowded, so left and started living in another house like this (I don't know where this one is) in the Islington area and working in a major london hotel.

The agency my ex got her student visa through told her that she didn't have to do things legally if she didn't want to as they knew people in London that could get her papers and jobs. Once I dropped this friend of my exes off at one of these agencies, run by a russian guy, just off the Strand in a very nice looking building. Not exactly shoestring budget, backstreet operation by the looks of it.

I look at your faith in the immigration service and then at my experience of how easy it is to get in here, get false papers, NI numbers etc. and laugh. I don't believe immigration is controlled. Some parts might be to a very slight extent, but the whole system is flawed and is by no means whatsoever controlled. You seem to think all the people coming in to this country will play by the rules, but they don't and there are plenty of people making money from helping them get round the poor system we have in place.

[Seti]

I am now undecided. I won't vote conservative because I do not agree with their immigration policies or what they state as facts regarding the state of the NHS.

Labour seem to be deflecting a huge amount of NHS propoganda at tthe moment and acheiving it quite succesfully.

The Lib dems who I would have voted for have nothing about free care for younger infirm people and I don't like the back to work policy because I can't find a nursing job that would give me a bed for a ouple of hours a day and stil pay me

So I am undecided. The lines between the three major parties are all very blurred.

Sian

[etccarmageddon]

"The Sun" has announced that it has decided to back Labour in the election which I think is based on public opinion they haven't the balls to back anything other than the favourite.

[punky]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

"The Sun" has announced that it has decided to back Labour in the election which I think is based on public opinion they haven't the balls to back anything other than the favourite.

Blimey, they changed their tune. They were crazy about the Tories a couple of days ago.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen the latiest Tory PPB? Why do all PPBs have all that deliberate dodgy camera work. You know, off centre focusing, deliberately wobbling the camera, speed of light pans, and some extremely dodgy angles of subjects. They always look like they have been done by 15 year olds, but you know they paid a porper company proper money to do that. Doesn't bode well when you think one of them is going to be in charge of a budget of hundreds of billions...

Originally Posted by punky

Blimey, they changed their tune. They were crazy about the Tories a couple of days ago.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen the latiest Tory PPB? Why do all PPBs have all that deliberate dodgy camera work. You know, off centre focusing, deliberately wobbling the camera, speed of light pans, and some extremely dodgy angles of subjects. They always look like they have been done by 15 year olds, but you know they paid a porper company proper money to do that. Doesn't bode well when you think one of them is going to be in charge of a budget of hundreds of billions...

Makes them seem folksy. You know, nice little chap from down the street who uses his little camera to record his family? The sort of guy you can trust, unlike big mean Mr Blair with his spin.

Its fit in with the whole tory campain (i.e Handwritten posters)
__________________

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

"The Sun" has announced that it has decided to back Labour in the election which I think is based on public opinion they haven't the balls to back anything other than the favourite.

You sure? Labour will be getting ****ed tonight

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

"The Sun" has announced that it has decided to back Labour in the election

[punky]

Originally Posted by Damien

Its fit in with the whole tory campain (i.e Handwritten posters)

I did metion they all do it...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/

LOL, Red smoke
__________________

Originally Posted by punky

I did metion they all do it...

Labour did one, when brown and blair were talking, same reason. Lib dems havent done one have they

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by punky

Blimey, they changed their tune. They were crazy about the Tories a couple of days ago.

it's because Rupert Murdock doesnt like the Conservative immigration policy and likes Tony Blair's stance on the Iraq war.

so now there's even more incentive to vote Conservative as it will put egg on 'the suns' face if you're a Sun hater and it will be a vote against Rupert!


Conservative's will also be abolishing stamp duty on houses below £250k. Sounds sensible to me.

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

it's because Rupert Murdock doesnt like the Conservative immigration policy and likes Tony Blair's stance on the Iraq war.

so now there's even more incentive to vote Conservative as it will put egg on 'the suns' face if you're a Sun hater and it will be a vote against Rupert!


Conservative's will also be abolishing stamp duty on houses below £250k. Sounds sensible to me.

When i stopped reading the Sun. My brain started working again

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

Did I say they were people from inside the EU? I thought I made it clear by saying they were illegally living and working here. They were from non-EU eastern european countries. I find it amusing that you say immigration is controlled, but when I point out specific cases you say the numbers aren't worth worrying about. If I pointed out a high-rise with 1000 in it, would that be 'cause for concern'? This is just a couple of houses that I personally know the whereabouts of. Do you honestly think these are the only ones around the London area, or the UK? If you do, then you're very naive. I point you back to the article I linked to in the week 2 thread, which you either didn't see or chose not to reply to as it doesn't back up your view. The government itself conservatively estimates over half a million illegal immigrants living inside the UK. Immigration is not controlled. How can it be controlled when we let people into this country on holiday or short term visas, but don't keep a check to see if they leave or not.

This ex-girlfriend of mine had a friend who came over around the same time and had already been deported from Ireland for overstaying her visa and working when she shouldn't. She had a stamp in her passport to this end, but this was taken care of with a bit of money to the right person and then voila, she was able to get a short-term student visa to the UK from one of our consulates. When she got here, she didn't even register with the college. She started working in a large heathrow hotel and living in one of these houses, but found the house too crowded, so left and started living in another house like this (I don't know where this one is) in the Islington area and working in a major london hotel.

The agency my ex got her student visa through told her that she didn't have to do things legally if she didn't want to as they knew people in London that could get her papers and jobs. Once I dropped this friend of my exes off at one of these agencies, run by a russian guy, just off the Strand in a very nice looking building. Not exactly shoestring budget, backstreet operation by the looks of it.

I look at your faith in the immigration service and then at my experience of how easy it is to get in here, get false papers, NI numbers etc. and laugh. I don't believe immigration is controlled. Some parts might be to a very slight extent, but the whole system is flawed and is by no means whatsoever controlled. You seem to think all the people coming in to this country will play by the rules, but they don't and there are plenty of people making money from helping them get round the poor system we have in place.

Yes I know there are cases of abuse. We do seem to have a problem with tax avoiding truck drivers who are only too willing to accept money from people smugglers, job agencies who spend most of their time exploiting local workers, accepting contracts from employers who turn a blind eye to employing people whose stay may not be legal. No doubt these same people vote Tory.

In this country the immigration service is responsible for controlling immigration and I'm sure they must be getting rather bored with headline grabbing Tory politicians seeking publicity. The immigration service & Inland Revenue are active in tracking down and dealing with illegal activities. Deportations take place regularly and unfortunatetly a number of genuine cases end up being deported.

You need to remember that over 350,000 UK citizens on average leave the UK every year becoming immigrants themselves elsewhere. So in the end any illegals can only be insignificant.

The Tories really ought to be explaining how their tax proposals and schemes for the economy are going to make sense, but of course they can't since this would expose the programme for job losses.

[keithwalton]

In previous threads I was incorrect my area is actually labour, and i think he's worried about his seat, as two sets of flyers later which prove nothing and contradict themselves hasnt gotten them anywhere.
I had some small amusement when a labour rep called round asking if they could count on my vote. It was so easy to say 'No way'

Originally Posted by Gogogo

Yes I know there are cases of abuse. We do seem to have a problem with tax avoiding truck drivers who are only too willing to accept money from people smugglers, job agencies who spend most of their time exploiting local workers, accepting contracts from employers who turn a blind eye to employing people whose stay may not be legal. No doubt these same people vote Tory.

That kind of slur probably gets you a barrel of laughs down at your local Labour club but it does nothing to advance the cause of reasoned, adult debate. Shame on you.

In this country the immigration service is responsible for controlling immigration and I'm sure they must be getting rather bored with headline grabbing Tory politicians seeking publicity. The immigration service & Inland Revenue are active in tracking down and dealing with illegal activities. Deportations take place regularly and unfortunatetly a number of genuine cases end up being deported.

Rubbish. As the Tories have been pointing out, the Immigration Service is one of IIRC eight agencies involved in the whole business of keeping people out of the UK who should not be here. The IS processes the ones that get caught, but you yourself have also mentioned the Inland Revenue, and there are others, Customs and Excise being an example. The Tory policy of streamlining border policing and control seems eminently sensible to me. Only a true red Labourite, with that typical 'jobs for the boys' mentality (bring down unemployment by stuffing the public sector with useless middle managers and administrators), could think otherwise. More on that in a second though.

You need to remember that over 350,000 UK citizens on average leave the UK every year becoming immigrants themselves elsewhere. So in the end any illegals can only be insignificant.

Clearly they are not insignificant, else it would not be an election issue in every seat whose constituency has a problem. How I wish you were campaigning in a place like Dover. It would be fun listening to you defend the indefensible while it was right under your nose instead of at a safe distance.

The Tories really ought to be explaining how their tax proposals and schemes for the economy are going to make sense, but of course they can't since this would expose the programme for job losses.

Errrm... they have already candidly admitted that pruning the mess your lot have made of the public sector is part of how they're going to save a great big wad of public cash. I don't see why this should bother you though. If the economy is in the truly rosy state you assure us it is, then it oughtn't be too hard for them to find alternative, useful employment.

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Errrm... they have already candidly admitted that pruning the mess your lot have made of the public sector is part of how they're going to save a great big wad of public cash. I don't see why this should bother you though. If the economy is in the truly rosy state you assure us it is, then it oughtn't be too hard for them to find alternative, useful employment.

What mess, where ? oh we dont know, it just exists because some jumped up bunch of a$$wipes says it does. Brittish politics at its best.

Our democratic nation has come down to a new philosophy
we have a$$holes in power, we can:
1. vote them back in
2. replace them with... yep you gessed it yet another bunch of a$$holes.

Such an intelligent way to live.

You can fool most of the people most of the time, and most brittish are just that, to continue falling for the same speel over and over again, in such a repeated way is so ridiculous its laughable. and yes Thats exactly what all the MP's are doing, laughing at the nation.

[iadom]

Classic quote on the ITV late news tonight, Tony 'Bliar' (not an sp) has visited the neglected North once again.

As he was going walkabout on a council estate in Rochdale, the reporter said, "the people on the estate looked out to see a strange sight, no not Mr Blair but the policeman with him" .

Now I laughed at first, but as they say, "many a true word spoken in jest".