ID card Bill dropped - Page 6

Xaccers · 08-04-2005, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

The scale for abuse that such a system provides is frightening. And if it's hacked?

The other problem the Government is going to have will be the large numbers of people who will simply refuse to go along with it, me included. I envisage Poll Tax style rebellion.

The goverment has many computer systems which aren't hacked and they contain much more interesting information than what Joe Blogs' father was called etc.

Other countries have ID card systems and they don't have that problem.

If they made it compulsary and replaced driving licences with it, I bet you'd get one rather than give up driving.

08-04-2005, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

The goverment has many computer systems which aren't hacked and they contain much more interesting information than what Joe Blogs' father was called etc.

Other countries have ID card systems and they don't have that problem.

If they made it compulsary and replaced driving licences with it, I bet you'd get one rather than give up driving.

No. I think the opposition will be sterner than that. Remember people went to prison when protesting about the Poll Tax.

We are not other countries. This measure is being brought in on the highly flimsy pretext of terror prevention with very little, if any, evidence that it will do so. I and many others will object to civil rights (for me283's sake, "civil rights") being attacked - and at such incredible expense too.

Xaccers · 08-04-2005, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

No. I think the opposition will be sterner than that. Remember people went to prison when protesting about the Poll Tax.

We are not other countries. This measure is being brought in on the highly flimsy pretext of terror prevention with very little, if any, evidence that it will do so. I and many others will object to civil rights (for me283's sake, "civil rights") being attacked - and at such incredible expense too.

Oh yes, the goverment lying about the reasons behind it does more damage than anything else!
If labour get back in and try to impliment ID cards, I'll be against it.

me283 · 08-04-2005, 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

The scale for abuse that such a system provides is frightening. And if it's hacked?

The other problem the Government is going to have will be the large numbers of people who will simply refuse to go along with it, me included. I envisage Poll Tax style rebellion.

Andy! Whatever happened to the man who says laws must be obeyed, even if you don't like them? Thank God the Lib Dems won't get into power, if that's their approach!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

No. I think the opposition will be sterner than that. Remember people went to prison when protesting about the Poll Tax.

We are not other countries. This measure is being brought in on the highly flimsy pretext of terror prevention with very little, if any, evidence that it will do so. I and many others will object to civil rights (for me283's sake, "civil rights") being attacked - and at such incredible expense too.

Andy, you shock me! I am all for civil rights, it's "human rights" that I disagree with

Xaccers · 08-04-2005, 11:34

Could someone please list the civil rights which will be lost if well thought out and properly implimented id cards are introduced (not the crappy id cards labour wants)?

08-04-2005, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Oh yes, the goverment lying about the reasons behind it does more damage than anything else!
If labour get back in and try to impliment ID cards, I'll be against it.

Aaaah, we can share a cell together!

Xaccers · 08-04-2005, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

Aaaah, we can share a cell together!

A cell? you're the one talking about breaking the law!
I'm talking about doing the normal british thing of accepting it but grumbling about how much it costs

08-04-2005, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by me283

Andy! Whatever happened to the man who says laws must be obeyed, even if you don't like them? Thank God the Lib Dems won't get into power, if that's their approach!
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As I pointed out in the 'Let's Stereotype & Bash Gypsies" thread, laws that prevent you from continuing with your way of life will, understandably, be broken whereas on the "I'm Such A Good Driver I Can Speed Then Moan When I Get Caught" thread, no such thing is true.

Quote:

Andy, you shock me! I am all for civil rights, it's "human rights" that I disagree with

Civil and human rights are closely inter-related. I suspect your problem is with the Human Rights Act.

Xaccers · 08-04-2005, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

As I pointed out in the 'Let's Stereotype & Bash Gypsies" thread, laws that prevent you from continuing with your way of life will, understandably, be broken

Unexcusably when there are legal alternatives, as pointed out in the Headlines about Gypsies thread (don't remember a 'Let's Stereotype & Bash Gypsies" thread...)

me283 · 08-04-2005, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

As I pointed out in the 'Let's Stereotype & Bash Gypsies" thread, laws that prevent you from continuing with your way of life will, understandably, be broken whereas on the "I'm Such A Good Driver I Can Speed Then Moan When I Get Caught" thread, no such thing is true.

Civil and human rights are closely inter-related. I suspect your problem is with the Human Rights Act.

Well, you have a point, I will hand it to you. My problem is partly with the Act, but also with the way "human rights" are bandied about in defence of wrong-doers. But that's a different matter.

And as for law-breaking, speeding may well be a way of life for me!

But I don't see how having to have an ID card would "prevent you from continuing with your way of life"?

08-04-2005, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by me283

Well, you have a point, I will hand it to you. My problem is partly with the Act, but also with the way "human rights" are bandied about in defence of wrong-doers. But that's a different matter.

And as for law-breaking, speeding may well be a way of life for me!

But I don't see how having to have an ID card would "prevent you from continuing with your way of life"?

The right to live in a free democratic society without my right to privacy being invaded.
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Quote:

Unexcusably when there are legal alternatives

Erroneously... but let's not go wildly off topic here!

Quote:

....as pointed out in the Headlines about Gypsies thread (don't remember a 'Let's Stereotype & Bash Gypsies" thread...)

I paraphrased slightly

Xaccers · 08-04-2005, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

The right to live in a free democratic society without my right to privacy being invaded.

How would your privacy be invaded by putting information the goverment already has available in a central database?

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

Erroneously... but let's not go wildly off topic here! I paraphrased slightly

The undeniable fact that some leave legal sites to set up illegal ones?

Stuart · 08-04-2005, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

The scale for abuse that such a system provides is frightening. And if it's hacked?

The other problem the Government is going to have will be the large numbers of people who will simply refuse to go along with it, me included. I envisage Poll Tax style rebellion.

Actually, the Government already has most of the information that would be stored under an ID card, it's just stored on different systems.

Xaccers · 08-04-2005, 12:38

I wonder if people who are agaisnt a central goverment database are also against a central police database (such as what I think Scotland have set up) which I believe the Soham report recommended

punky · 08-04-2005, 12:41

The idea is, which annoys most of the super liberals, is to tie this information in together, via a common number, your ID number. That doesn't go down well with the crowd who love "The Prisoner" with all that "I am a man, not a number!" cobblers. Nevermind, we already have at least 1 and anything upto 10 numbers already associated with us. Maybe I can use that whole "I am not a number" argument to get me out of NI contributions