Sword Man shot dead... - Page 2

Flubflow · 22-03-2005, 20:05

Apparently, according to other news sources (Sky News I think I saw today), the bloke was trying to get in somones vehicle after they fired the baton rounds so they shot him. They shot him or at him several times according to witnesses at the scene.
I'm sure more will come to light soon.

22-03-2005, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Having actually killed the guy, he's no longer in any position to explain his actions, so we'll probably never be any the wiser what drives these people, since 'suicide by cop' seems to be very effective.

Now there is an interesting / intreaging idea / angle...

But like you say, I guess we will never know.

22-03-2005, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Apparently, according to other news sources (Sky News I think I saw today), the bloke was trying to get in somones vehicle after they fired the baton rounds so they shot him. They shot him or at him several times according to witnesses at the scene.
I'm sure more will come to light soon.

According to our local news, the armed police were called after the guy crashed his van and then started to try to hijak another vehicle, while brandishing the sword.

Apparently he was confronting the Police, when the baton rounds were fired, but he got up & continued towards them, ignoring warnings and was then shot...

greencreeper · 23-03-2005, 00:42

The armed police tend to be gun-ho ex-squaddies who couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo. The shoot to kill policy is based on the claimed inaccuracy of the weapons - i.e. can't hit an arm so have to aim for the torso. Hmmm. Christ. They shot a bloke with a sword

It's like Indiana Jones only not as funny.

Tezcatlipoca · 23-03-2005, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by greencreeper

The shoot to kill policy is based on the claimed inaccuracy of the weapons - i.e. can't hit an arm so have to aim for the torso. Hmmm. Christ. They shot a bloke with a sword

It's like Indiana Jones only not as funny.

I don't understand why they can't just use non-lethal weapons to incapacitate people.

Tasers, stun guns, *something* other than a load of bullets.

Flubflow · 23-03-2005, 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by greencreeper

The armed police tend to be gun-ho ex-squaddies who couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo. The shoot to kill policy is based on the claimed inaccuracy of the weapons - i.e. can't hit an arm so have to aim for the torso. Hmmm. Christ. They shot a bloke with a sword

It's like Indiana Jones only not as funny.

Yeah, on the face of it, it sounds a bit daft.
I wonder couldn't they just go right up to the guy, a few feet out of swords range, and then taser him or shoot him in both legs virtually at point blank? (or are the "marksmen" so useless that they can't even do that?).
Then again, we don't know all the facts of the case yet.

greencreeper · 23-03-2005, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Then again, we don't know all the facts of the case yet.

Aren't likely to neither. Bloke has sword, police have guns - fairly obvious who's going to walk away alive.

Lord Nikon · 23-03-2005, 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by greencreeper

Aren't likely to neither. Bloke has sword, police have guns - fairly obvious who's going to walk away alive.

The old addage of taking a knife to a gunfight...

I have seen the police walking around with guns, and I wouldn't trust them to not shoot themselves, they should learn from the US police...

23-03-2005, 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by greencreeper

The shoot to kill policy is based on the claimed inaccuracy of the weapons - i.e. can't hit an arm so have to aim for the torso.

You aim for an arm, but just as you pull the trigger the bloke moves it. The bullet flies on its merry way and hits some poor sucker in the background who was in the wrong place at the wrong time...

Flubflow · 23-03-2005, 02:19

Maybe after so many of these sword attacks in recent years it is now time for the police to review their tactics.
Perhaps, instead of police marksmen, they should start employing police swordsmen.

purenuman · 23-03-2005, 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by greencreeper

Aren't likely to neither. Bloke has sword, police have guns - fairly obvious who's going to walk away alive.

Yeah the people who were not slaughtered while having their cars hijacked....

Maybe just maybe they did the right thing....

Why not wait until you know what happened before using this as a stick to beat coppers with.

So what percentage of armed Police are "gun-ho ex-squaddies" then??

Our armed Police are among the safest, well trained and internationally revereed in the world.

I'm not claiming everything they do is spot on but you would be hard pressed to find better. I'd be rather glad to have them "on scene" if the sword was heading for my family in one of those cars.
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Nikon

they should learn from the US police...

23-03-2005, 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Yeah, on the face of it, it sounds a bit daft.
I wonder couldn't they just go right up to the guy, a few feet out of swords range, and then taser him or shoot him in both legs virtually at point blank? (or are the "marksmen" so useless that they can't even do that?).
Then again, we don't know all the facts of the case yet.

Ok, answers on a point for point basis....

1) Why not get up close and taser him or shoot him in the legs? I'll tell you why, no-one (police/squaddie etc) will get too close to a nutcase with a bladed weapon. You try it, within a couple of feet and concentrating to put a round in someones legs? Stop watching Hollywood movies ffs.

2) (or are the marksmen so useless they cant even do that?). Ok, some facts about guns (or more correctly the Heckler and Kock MP5, which most British Police Forces use for Armed Responce Teams). The MP5 fires a 9mm parabellum round in excess of 350 meters per second. In tests when the British Army first bought this weapon, it was found that Military Ball rounds fire from this weapon had a nasty habit of causing *through-and-through wounds*. Namely that the round could, unless it hit a large bone, pass right through a human body, including the torso. Consider also the fact that the police, in a similar manner to soldier are taught to aim at the largest mass of the human body, namely *The Torso*. So combine training with the ballistics of modern firearms and the rounds they fire, and the ''safest'' option is to put two rounds (double tap) in the targets chest, and if you are really, really good a third in the targets head. In less than ONE SECOND, while under stress.

And I have a question for you. Have you ever had to ''put it on the line'' and draw down on another human being?

Flubflow · 23-03-2005, 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl of Bronze

Ok, answers on a point for point basis....

1) Why not get up close and taser him or shoot him in the legs? I'll tell you why, no-one (police/squaddie etc) will get too close to a nutcase with a bladed weapon. You try it, within a couple of feet and concentrating to put a round in someones legs? Stop watching Hollywood movies ffs.

2) (or are the marksmen so useless they cant even do that?). Ok, some facts about guns (or more correctly the Heckler and Kock MP5, which most British Police Forces use for Armed Responce Teams). The MP5 fires a 9mm parabellum round in excess of 350 meters per second. In tests when the British Army first bought this weapon, it was found that Military Ball rounds fire from this weapon had a nasty habit of causing *through-and-through wounds*. Namely that the round could, unless it hit a large bone, pass right through a human body, including the torso. Consider also the fact that the police, in a similar manner to soldier are taught to aim at the largest mass of the human body, namely *The Torso*. So combine training with the ballistics of modern firearms and the rounds they fire, and the ''safest'' option is to put two rounds (double tap) in the targets chest, and if you are really, really good a third in the targets head. In less than ONE SECOND, while under stress.

And I have a question for you. Have you ever had to ''put it on the line'' and draw down on another human being?

Too Close? A sword has a range of a few feet. Police tasers have a ranges up to 20ft.

me283 · 23-03-2005, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Too Close? A sword has a range of a few feet. Police tasers have a ranges up to 20ft.

Tasers are a good thing, in my opinion. But again, the type of taser you refer to involves aiming and firing. Now, what if the police miss their moving target? What if they hit the person in the car? What if the swordsman then hacks wildly and kills/maims someone? Tasers are great in the right situation; I don't think this would have been the right situation.

In this case, with only a paucity of facts available right now, I think they handled it right. One could say "If you live by the sword, you die by the sword", but I guess we shall never know exactly how far he would have gone with it. As for the American Police, there is a running joke over there about our Police. Theirs shout "Stop, or I'll shoot"; ours say "Stop, or I'll shout "Stop" again". There's a comparison for you.

purenuman · 23-03-2005, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Too Close? A sword has a range of a few feet. Police tasers have a ranges up to 20ft.

And maybe the Police were 100ft away witnessing aggression towards an intended victim only feet away from his blade and getting closer by the second....

Maybe the cop you assume incompetent was a savior.....

Why not wait for the facts before telling them how to do it??