The Budget

I suppose because Budgets are concerned with the nation's revenue and taxation Chancellors of the Exchequer will always be regarded with a certain amount of unpopularity. Gordon Brown as Chancellor has broken a record he is now the second longest occupant of the post overtaking David Lloyd George's record of 7 years. Only William Gladstone (19th century) has survived longer for 12 years.

I've read some comments in this forum a number of which border on the extreme, not unusual, and some comments could be seen as libellous. It is likely that public opinion in time may see Gordon Brown in a very different light than the members of this board have. I have not as yet had the time to study the Budget in detail and certainly issues will be clarified over the coming weeks as the Commons discusses the money bill. It has to be said though that Gordon Brown has performed his duties well, he has in fact been the pillar of the New Labour government, he is a symbol of stability and caution. I certainly hope that if the New Labour government is returned in the coming general election he will continue in his post.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Sorry I'm just cynical. Waiting for the general ellection, when labour get back in and tax goes through the roof.

from national statistics:-

"...for the calendar year 2004 the UK recorded a government deficit of £35.8 billion..."

"At the end of 2004 general government debt was £481.4 billion, equivalent to 41.6 per cent of GDP."

from the BBC key points:-
"Borrowing was forecast at £34bn for 2004/5, £32bn for 2005/6 and £29bn for 2006/7."

So each year he's spending around £30,000 ,000,000 more than he takes in tax receipts?

[bob_builder]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

Funny though both Tory and Lib-Dem have said they would raise taxes more and I believe they would have overall just would ahve gone about some things differently.

so really if you vote labour still looks the best option.

But Labour are just lying and will put taxes up after the election!

I would rather vote for somebody who is honest and up-front about needing to raise taxes than someone who cuts them as a bribe 50 days before a general election only to put them up again.

[Paul K]

If you're only going to vote for an honest politician then personally I'd save myself a trip to the polling station

[bob_builder]

Originally Posted by Paul

If you're only going to vote for an honest politician then personally I'd save myself a trip to the polling station

Edit: I will anyway as I am registered to vote by post!

I will vote, however, for whoever has the greatest chance of defeating Labour in my constituency!

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by bob_builder

But Labour are just lying and will put taxes up after the election!

I would rather vote for somebody who is honest and up-front about needing to raise taxes than someone who cuts them as a bribe 50 days before a general election only to put them up again.

well you should look at the long term and I dont just mean in the future i mean over the past aswell

Just where is the bribery ?

As for an honest politician errrm you having a laugh ?

Edit: as for 50 days before the election. you got some inside information or have I missed the official announcement that the election is @ xx:xx:05 ?

AFAIK any election date atm is purely rumour and conjecture by others

[bob_builder]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

well you should look at the long term and I dont just mean in the future i mean over the past aswell

Just where is the bribery ?

I am looking over the longer term.

Before Labour came to power they said they would not get rid of student grants - they did and they introduce tuition fees on top!

Then they said they would not introduce top-up fees - they did!

Last election they said they would not put up income tax - they did not but they put up National Insurance by 1% and removed the cap, which is as good as putting all the income tax bands up by 1%!

Now they say they are going to give OAPs a discount on council tax but we all know that the council tax will go up for most people due to the revaluation in 2006 so that will probably wipe out the £200 bribe within a year.

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

Edit: as for 50 days before the election. you got some inside information or have I missed the official announcement that the election is @ xx:xx:05 ?

AFAIK any election date atm is purely rumour and conjecture by others

It has been stated from sources within the government that the 05/05/05 date is what is being targetted and only something major in the meantime would prevent it from being that date so we might as well assume it will be in 49 days time unless we hear otherwise.

I think we will probably have to agree to disagree over this as it is obvious that we both have stong but opposing views. I am very much anti-Labour and object to the way they reverse their election promises. I almost voted for Labour in the 1996 election as their policies sounded reasonable but I am glad I did not now. As it happened, I voted for a minority party in that election and was one of the voters that could have prevented Labour gaining a seat in my old Castle Point constituency so that was almost as bad as voting for Labour. I have learnt my lesson now, though, and will be voting tactically in this year's election.

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by bob_builder

I am looking over the longer term.

Before Labour came to power they said they would not get rid of student grants - they did and they introduce tuition fees on top!

Then they said they would not introduce top-up fees - they did!

All parties will drop promises it happens and ye its a bummer

Originally Posted by bob_builder

Last election they said they would not put up income tax - they did not but they put up National Insurance by 1% and removed the cap, which is as good as putting all the income tax bands up by 1%!

NI is not income tax it goes to a seperate fund, for the countries future in a collective manner.

Originally Posted by bob_builder

Now they say they are going to give OAPs a discount on council tax but we all know that the council tax will go up for most people due to the revaluation in 2006 so that will probably wipe out the £200 bribe within a year.

Like all the so called bribes of the election this was money in the bank allready anyway from past increases way over inflation, to give oap's a reduction is not just good its damn nesecary, and by all accounts will be up for review in a year. Its not a bribe it was called for by nessecity

Originally Posted by bob_builder

It has been stated from sources within the government that the 05/05/05 date is what is being targetted and only something major in the meantime would prevent it from being that date so we might as well assume it will be in 49 days time unless we hear otherwise.

Mr Blair calls the election date he can announce it as close as 1 week before he wants it. Iv only seen him say no date set yet. unless iv missed him announce a set date or target date Anything else is rumour and conjecture, and by others.

Originally Posted by bob_builder

I think we will probably have to agree to disagree over this as it is obvious that we both have stong but opposing views. I am very much anti-Labour and object to the way they reverse their election promises. I almost voted for Labour in the 1996 election as their policies sounded reasonable but I am glad I did not now. As it happened, I voted for a minority party in that election and was one of the voters that could have prevented Labour gaining a seat in my old Castle Point constituency so that was almost as bad as voting for Labour. I have learnt my lesson now, though, and will be voting tactically in this year's election.

Your welcome to disagree for sure

All parties reverse certain promises.
To tactically vote in a general election its either tory or labour, Lib-dems dont have a big enough return to be really considered viable oposition for full government

Conservative current policy cut services save money and increase taxes more than labour did yesterday by their own statements and admissions.

Dont get me wrong I'm no labour supporter but imo we really do not want a contservative Britain. It will be another disaster and in a big way, just may not be the same disaster as the Thatcher days

[bob_builder]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

NI is not income tax it goes to a seperate fund, for the countries future in a collective manner.

You are right it should, although whether it does is up to the government. However, it makes no difference to me where it goes I just have to pay 1% more tax, whether it is income tax or not.

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

To tactically vote in a general election its either tory or labour, Lib-dems dont have a big enough return to be really considered viable oposition for full government

I am not suggesting that the LibDems would win the election but that you could vote tactically for them to ensure Labour do not.

In Cambridge, Labour's majority is getting smaller each election and there is a very strong possibility that they will lose this year to the LibDems. So the way I see it it is a vote for or against Labour - a vote for the LibDems will increase the chance of voting Labour out, a vote for any other party (including Labour) is as good as a vote for Labour.

[Scarlett]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

NI is not income tax it goes to a seperate fund, for the countries future in a collective manner.

Not any more, it all just goes into Browns pocket..

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

All parties reverse certain promises.
To tactically vote in a general election its either tory or labour, Lib-dems dont have a big enough return to be really considered viable oposition for full government

Actually the lib dems are viable, if labour lose enough of their majority and it goes to no overall control, then the lib dems will be holding the balance of power in parlament. Okay, I'll grant that they aren't likely to get a majority but the could be left deciding which way to tip the scales.

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

Conservative current policy cut services save money and increase taxes more than labour did yesterday by their own statements and admissions.

At least there honest about it. and whats so bad about cutting money from services rather than throwing extra money so that you can employ another layer of managers to 'manage' the service.

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

Dont get me wrong I'm no labour supporter but imo we really do not want a contservative Britain. It will be another disaster and in a big way, just may not be the same disaster as the Thatcher days

Fourtunatly, I was only a young 'un through those years so I don't really remember them. I was around during the major years and lets not forget that the reason that the economy started off so well was the Gorden stuck to the very strick Tory spending restrictions through his first 2 years...

[NitroNutter]

Oooh my now your saying conservatives are honest

Lets face reality they are all nothing more than a bunch of overpaid two faced over aged chavs screwing the general public any way they feel they can get away with it. When i say all I mean all parties

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by Gogogo

I suppose because Budgets are concerned with the nation's revenue and taxation Chancellors of the Exchequer will always be regarded with a certain amount of unpopularity. Gordon Brown as Chancellor has broken a record he is now the second longest occupant of the post overtaking David Lloyd George's record of 7 years. Only William Gladstone (19th century) has survived longer for 12 years.

I've read some comments in this forum a number of which border on the extreme, not unusual, and some comments could be seen as libellous. It is likely that public opinion in time may see Gordon Brown in a very different light than the members of this board have. I have not as yet had the time to study the Budget in detail and certainly issues will be clarified over the coming weeks as the Commons discusses the money bill. It has to be said though that Gordon Brown has performed his duties well, he has in fact been the pillar of the New Labour government, he is a symbol of stability and caution. I certainly hope that if the New Labour government is returned in the coming general election he will continue in his post.

Which comments are supposed to be libellous then?

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by Flubflow

Which comments are supposed to be libellous then?

Dont see how an opinion can be libellous in any form as thats all it ever will be is an opinion.

Still there are some around that would rather nothing negative was ever said if it wasnt in agreement with their opinion

[ntluser]

Sadly, the Budget was just another New Labour vote grabber for the upcoming election.

New Labour have been excellent at making promises and starting initiatives. Unfortunately they have been diabolical at keeping them and fail to have initiatives that actually work.

After all the sleaze, spin and the trouble over Iraq I personally feel that they have to go.

Despite Gordon Brown's comments about the economy and the various records achieved on growth and stability over the years, I notice that he failed to mention the Government's record borrowing and the Government's record waste.

The only politician of any credit in this is Charles Kennedy but sadly he has the smallest party, though I find him a lot more believable and personable than either Tony Blair or Michael Howard.

The phrase "honest politician" should not be an oxymoron. Indeed it should be the standard in Government. Charles Kennedy, though he has his faults, does at least come across as someone who actually cares what happens to Britain, which is more than can be said for Blair or Howard.

Though Gordon Brown's budget does contain a lot of vote sweeteners, we have to remember that on previous budgets New Labour have always promised a lot and appeared to be doing one thing when they are really doing another. As per usual it's smoke and mirrors.

One thing is certain, if they are still in power after the election we will all be the poorer for it.

[NitroNutter]

Todays conservative argument is so self contradictive you have to laugh

We will cut 35bn in wasted funds cutting services
We will spend as much as labour and more on services

their catchphrase for the budget "Vote now pay later"
meaning Tory could only increase taxes on what labour did yesterday
Today they will cut spending on waste increase spending on services theyve just cut and decrease taxes so everyone is better off
And just how does that add up ?

35bn negative (saved)
More than 35bn positive (spent)
lower taxess == what

I would have to asume they could only finance this by increased borrowing
Both parties live in a banana state of mind anyway. I dont see anything really different in lib-dems either.