The Youth of Today...

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by andyl

I'm in no way excusing the crimes but might have been an idea to get him on a drugs rehabilitation programme. So much crime is drug related and yet drug programme places are as rare as rocking horse dooberry. The stupid thing is you often have to get into the Criminal Justice System to have a chance of being offered treatment (and even then you're lucky). This is why I (and a magistrate friend) believe we should legalise and control the distribution of drugs so that we can remove such a major cause of crime, particularly burglary and theft.

Throwing people away for a long period of time will not only cost us a lot of money but not prove effective in rehabilitation (incidenally, did you know they still have sewing workshops in even the highest category prisons. How on earth is that skill going to be useful to people when they are released?!)

If we blindly seek vengeance for crime but in doing so fail to halt it, we are doing no-one any favours.

Being everso slightly biased i wont put my real opinion on the low life smackheads who are a blight on many communities. I see a lot of it in this area every day of the week. As for drug rehabilitation programs good idea but my idea of drug rehabilitation and yours would be worlds apart. no (offence meant ) but the words cold and a form of poultry spring to mind. Just my honest opinion

My former neighbour was a heroin addict. Robbed me (allegedly!), robbed another neighbour - which got him caught. Took him going to court to get treatment and then just methadone. I'd known him since he was 12 and he was, and still is in fact, a nice kid (well, in his 20 nows) but he got in too deep. The criminalisation of drugs not only creates criminality through supply and the need for addicts to satify their needs, but it deters addicts from seeking help. We need a much more mature debate in this country about drugs because to my mind it is the biggest single issue we face in terms of the causes of burglary and theft.

Not sure about that cold turkey treatment though It's easier than people might think for people to get addicted, whether its drugs, alcohol, Cable Forum, whatever!!

[ian@huth]

When I was a kid just after the War it was quite common for kids to get a slap if they had done something wrong. The slaps could come from anyone but mainly from relatives and school teachers. The local bobbies were also inclined to give you a warning and a slap if they caught you misbehaving. All these slaps and the odd caning at school didn't turn me into a thug and didn't do me any physical damage, maybe a little mental damage. They taught you right from wrong and that the rights of everyone should be respected. They also taught you that if you did something wrong you were more than likely to be punished.

Todays children also know what's right and wrong but they also know that doing something wrong is unlikely to be punished. They know how far they can push things and many of them do push things to the limit. This attitude is taken into later life and many continue to push everything to the limit. For some it becomes a game where they try to show their superiority by going as far as they can without having to suffer the consequences of their actions. Once they get away with something they try to get away with something that is a bit more of a challenge and before you know it they are hardened criminals.

What punishment can you give kids today to make them see the error of their ways? Many parents don't dole out any punishment because they want an easy life for themselves. Having seen life over a longer period than most on here I would say that I would prefer the remedies that existed in my childhood to the ways that some today are advocating.

[Paul K]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

When I was a kid just after the War it was quite common for kids to get a slap if they had done something wrong. The slaps could come from anyone but mainly from relatives and school teachers. The local bobbies were also inclined to give you a warning and a slap if they caught you misbehaving. All these slaps and the odd caning at school didn't turn me into a thug and didn't do me any physical damage, maybe a little mental damage. They taught you right from wrong and that the rights of everyone should be respected. They also taught you that if you did something wrong you were more than likely to be punished.

Todays children also know what's right and wrong but they also know that doing something wrong is unlikely to be punished. They know how far they can push things and many of them do push things to the limit. This attitude is taken into later life and many continue to push everything to the limit. For some it becomes a game where they try to show their superiority by going as far as they can without having to suffer the consequences of their actions. Once they get away with something they try to get away with something that is a bit more of a challenge and before you know it they are hardened criminals.

What punishment can you give kids today to make them see the error of their ways? Many parents don't dole out any punishment because they want an easy life for themselves. Having seen life over a longer period than most on here I would say that I would prefer the remedies that existed in my childhood to the ways that some today are advocating.

And this post just about sums up the view of a lot of people here.

Some people may not agree with it and some might even try and argue against it but a lot of people will agree 100% with this post.

My kids get grounded, sent to their bedroom, no sweets, no swimming whatever. Mind you, thankfully they're a pair of goody two shoes who rarely trouble me (still time mind you).

But there is a big difference between a parent administering some mild form of physical punishment and some of the actions advocated ie assaulting someone else's kid.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

When I was a kid just after the War it was quite common for kids to get a slap if they had done something wrong. The slaps could come from anyone but mainly from relatives and school teachers. The local bobbies were also inclined to give you a warning and a slap if they caught you misbehaving. All these slaps and the odd caning at school didn't turn me into a thug and didn't do me any physical damage, maybe a little mental damage. They taught you right from wrong and that the rights of everyone should be respected. They also taught you that if you did something wrong you were more than likely to be punished.

As I've said, physical punishment is IMO for the parents only. Woe betide anyone who decides to administer punishment on to my daughter like that. They'll find themselves in court faster than you can say "it's for their own good"

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by andyl

My kids get grounded, sent to their bedroom, no sweets, no swimming whatever. Mind you, thankfully they're a pair of goody two shoes who rarely trouble me (still time mind you).

And what would you do if they refused to go to their room?

If they had a terrible tantrum?

If while you were you were trying to pick then up to get them their romm they kicked or hit you?

Or then picked up a bone china ornament and smashed it on the floor?

What would you do if you came home and found that they had had their friends round and vandalised your house?

What would you do if you found they had been stealing from you to buy cigarettes and booze?

What would you do if your kids were teenagers more that match for you physically?

What would you do if your kids just ignored you?

Some people don't have goody two shoes

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

When I was a kid just after the War it was quite common for kids to get a slap if they had done something wrong. The slaps could come from anyone but mainly from relatives and school teachers. The local bobbies were also inclined to give you a warning and a slap if they caught you misbehaving. All these slaps and the odd caning at school didn't turn me into a thug and didn't do me any physical damage, maybe a little mental damage. They taught you right from wrong and that the rights of everyone should be respected. They also taught you that if you did something wrong you were more than likely to be punished.

Todays children also know what's right and wrong but they also know that doing something wrong is unlikely to be punished. They know how far they can push things and many of them do push things to the limit. This attitude is taken into later life and many continue to push everything to the limit. For some it becomes a game where they try to show their superiority by going as far as they can without having to suffer the consequences of their actions. Once they get away with something they try to get away with something that is a bit more of a challenge and before you know it they are hardened criminals.

What punishment can you give kids today to make them see the error of their ways? Many parents don't dole out any punishment because they want an easy life for themselves. Having seen life over a longer period than most on here I would say that I would prefer the remedies that existed in my childhood to the ways that some today are advocating.

Everything i wanted to say and more.

Originally Posted by andyl

But there is a big difference between a parent administering some mild form of physical punishment and some of the actions advocated ie assaulting someone else's kid.

I agree 100%, smacking a child ''after'' they have been warned ''not'' to do something is in my opinion ok. On the other hand using ones fists is assault, and lets face it, anyone who would use his fists on a child or a woman is not a man. (This is offcourse from a mans perspective, and not ment to be sexist seeing as certain posters prolly think I'm a psychotic thug from some previous posts).

On th other hand, if I am being verbally abused, and physically intimidated (well it has been tried) by 6 - 10, fifteen to sixteen year olds, and they then decide to try and get physical, then I reserve the right to defend myself. The fact that this happened to me within the last eight or so weeks, in my mind only underlines the face that a proportion of todays youth are running wild. In the end of the afore mentioned encounter, one of the teenages ended up on the floor with his right arm in a painfull arm lock. If teenages want to get physical with adults, then they must accept that they might well get hurt.

And before ANYONE comments, no I didnt enjoy myself. But I did get a certain ammount of satisfaction from teaching a fool not to try throwing his weight about.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by andyl

My kids get grounded, sent to their bedroom, no sweets, no swimming whatever. Mind you, thankfully they're a pair of goody two shoes who rarely trouble me (still time mind you).

But there is a big difference between a parent administering some mild form of physical punishment and some of the actions advocated ie assaulting someone else's kid.

There must be many kids like yours who are perfect little angels at home but behave very differently when you are not about. As I previously said, they have got everything worked out and know that if someone else complains about their behaviour you will probably say it wasn't them or the situation must have been exaggerated.

I would never hit another persons kids but firmly believe that parents and others in charge of the kids should be able to smack where it is warranted.

[Doofy]

My wife is a teacher in a comprehensive school, i have lost count of the number of times she has come home after suffering verbal and physical abuse at the hands of some little scrote. What do the school, the local council and the police do in a word sod all. All they manage to do was throw labels around, its not his fault he has ADHD, Aspergers, oh wait no he hasnt hes got and i love this one SCHOOL PHOBIA. Well thats allright then hes 6foot tall and built like Mike Tyson but hes scared of school so thats why he is a violent little ****. Maybe just maybe he hasn't got anything wrong, the concept that he may be just a violent little *** who does it because he can and does not know what discipline is seems to be an alien concept to theses do gooders. What he needs is a swift kick up the **** and the concept of discipline ramming down him. Would i do it myself to damn right i would where do is sign up. I just want to say that schoolteachers i take my hat off to them they have more patience than i have .

Originally Posted by Doofy

All they manage to do was throw labels around, its not his fault he has ADHD, Aspergers,<snip>

These are a bit more than just 'labels' - they're properly diagnosed conditions. I'll have to admit to never having heard of 'school phobia', but I suspect it's some sort of psychosis, which is not the same as a lifelong disability like Aspergers.

That's not to excuse verbal or physical abuse from any pupil, but a distinction has to be made between - you can't just lump the kids with special needs in with the trouble makers.
__________________

Originally Posted by ian@huth

There must be many kids like yours who are perfect little angels at home but behave very differently when you are not about.

Strangely enough, mine are quite the opposite. Little horrors at home, but lovely kids away from home, by all accounts (most of the time, anyway )

Originally Posted by Doofy

My wife is a teacher in a comprehensive school, i have lost count of the number of times she has come home after suffering verbal and physical abuse at the hands of some little scrote. What do the school, the local council and the police do in a word sod all. All they manage to do was throw labels around, its not his fault he has ADHD, Aspergers, oh wait no he hasnt hes got and i love this one SCHOOL PHOBIA. Well thats allright then hes 6foot tall and built like Mike Tyson but hes scared of school so thats why he is a violent little ****. Maybe just maybe he hasn't got anything wrong, the concept that he may be just a violent little *** who does it because he can and does not know what discipline is seems to be an alien concept to theses do gooders. What he needs is a swift kick up the **** and the concept of discipline ramming down him. Would i do it myself to damn right i would where do is sign up. I just want to say that schoolteachers i take my hat off to them they have more patience than i have .

Has your wife consulted other staff members and his form & year teacher, do they also have this problem. Has the issue been discussed with school managers? No one should put up with constant abuse especially if it is physical this sounds very serious, has she consulted her union. maybe a swift summons for assault could help. No teacher should accept or be expected to accept constant physical or verbal abuse. Seems the school ought to exclude the pupil concerned pdq!

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

There must be many kids like yours who are perfect little angels at home but behave very differently when you are not about. As I previously said, they have got everything worked out and know that if someone else complains about their behaviour you will probably say it wasn't them or the situation must have been exaggerated.

I would never hit another persons kids but firmly believe that parents and others in charge of the kids should be able to smack where it is warranted.

I agree many parents think their kids are angels, Andyl may have kids who are angels but many are not.

I would not go around hitting someones kids for being cheeky etc, but I stand by my beliefs that a teenager physically attacking me will get exactly the same treatment as an adult.

Age is no barrier, if they are big enough to dish it out, they are big enough to take it.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ D

As I've said, physical punishment is IMO for the parents only. Woe betide anyone who decides to administer punishment on to my daughter like that. They'll find themselves in court faster than you can say "it's for their own good"

Thing is Russ, I can be pretty much 100% sure that if a PC brought home your daughter after she had done something wrong, or even just informed you that she had, or if the school informed you that she'd been disruptive/misbehaving etc in school, you'd definitely deal with her and let her know it's not acceptable.

Unfortunately there are so many "parents" who would have a go at the PC or the school and try and shift the blame onto someone else.

I remember hearing about a 5 year old who called a WPC a "f'kin cnt"
When the WPC asked the mother if she was going to let her daughter get away with that she got the following reply "Well, you lot have just arrested her brother so what do you expect?"