Another reason to avoid HSBC

Originally Posted by Russ D

I'm not hypocritical - I'm against outsourcing because of the degredation in customer service.

I know . If service levels go down as a direct result of outsourcing then that is a different matter (as I said).
__________________

Originally Posted by scrotnig

So, we're all going to have to live with it even when there are NO jobs left in the UK? What do we do then?

I take it YOUR job isn't under threat? What will you do when it is? Get another one? And what about when there aren't any more to get?

And who is going to buy these companies' products in the UK if no one in the UK has a job any more?

UK companies serving UK customers should have those jobs in the UK.

And it isn't just call centre jobs, we even have companies getting letters typed up in India, plus off course the offshoring of loads of IT development.

UK jobs should be in the UK. Period. If it means taxing the firms to the hilt if they offshore, then fine.

Whoa there! I'm not saying I agree with outsourcing, just saying that's the way the economy now works and pointing out the way we all take the positives we want from it - cheap electronics from China etc - but don't recognise the negatives, which is jobs being lost. We seem to want it both ways though.

Don't forget too all the manufacturing and mining jobs already lost which means we are now more dependent than ever on other countries' goods and resources.

BTW I work for myself so my job's probably under more threat from spending too much time here

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by andyl

Whoa there! I'm not saying I agree with outsourcing, just saying that's the way the economy now works and pointing out the way we all take the positives we want from it - cheap electronics from China etc - but don't recognise the negatives, which is jobs being lost. We seem to want it both ways though.

Don't forget too all the manufacturing and mining jobs already lost which means we are now more dependent than ever on other countries' goods and resources.

BTW I work for myself so my job's probably under more threat from spending too much time here

It's the old story. In this country we want things cheap cheap cheap all the time. We're our own worst enemy.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Russ D

I'm not hypocritical - I'm against outsourcing because of the degredation in customer service.

Which means the service levels put in place are inadequate, but as I have had poor CS from UK call centres too whats the difference.

Originally Posted by scrotnig

I take it YOUR job isn't under threat? What will you do when it is? Get another one? And what about when there aren't any more to get?

UK jobs should be in the UK. Period. If it means taxing the firms to the hilt if they offshore, then fine.

I'd like to say no, but if you look back 10 years the tech infrastructure meant you could not offshore call centres. As an accountant I realise there are many talanted accountants in asia and india who can do many of the accounting roles in a business just as well as I could over here, after all they are analysing, reconciling posting numbers in a computer system, why does that have to be done in the UK?

And using tax as a threat, watch these corporates up sticks and move thier head offices to India too and pay their corporation tax to the Indian government not the UK govt. That would leave a huge hole in Mr Browns balanced budget. Quite simply - ain't gonna happen.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

Which means the service levels put in place are inadequate, but as I have had poor CS from UK call centres too whats the difference.

There's a difference in culture - if I call to make a complaint I want to know that the person on the other end of the phone empathises with my use of emphasis on particular words. Language and culture barriers prevent this.

I don't want to have to repeat myself over and over again because they don't understand my Welsh accent. That has NEVER happened to me from a UK callcentre.

I don't want to keep asking them to repeat what they say because I can't understand their accents.

I don't want to me met with "certainly please" each time I ask them to do something. I live in the UK and I demand that any company offering me a service here should speak our English.

This isn't just aimed at Indian callcentres - the ones who use americanisms annoy me just as much.

Originally Posted by Russ D

I don't want to keep asking them to repeat what they say because I can't understand their accents.

Yeah I know, that Swansea call centre is a bugger isn't it!!

[Russ]

I've never had that kind of problem with a Swansea or any other UK callcentre (with the possible exception of the ones in Glasgow).

[Salu]

Are they planning to move their customers there as well?

[Russ]

What I think is dangerous here is that these companies seem perfectly happy to encourage the idea that Indian callcentres are almost 'normal' or 'customery', in the way they've all embraced automated telephone systems.

[Pierre]

UK companies cutting jobs and moving the work to ASIA.

well it is the Hong Kong, Shanghai Banking corporation.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

well it is the Hong Kong, Shanghai Banking corporation.

As discussed in post 11.

[bob_a_builder]

Funny how its (generally) always the customer service side thats moved ofshore with all the issues of misunderstandings etc which have been mentioned.
But dial the sales number and you get through (usually) to an english based service.

So they don't mind giving exsisting punters the run around in an offshore CS operation, but aren't prepared to expose potential 'brand new customers' to that level of service#

Wonder why that might be ....

Originally Posted by bob_a_builder

Funny how its (generally) always the customer service side thats moved ofshore with all the issues of misunderstandings etc which have been mentioned.
But dial the sales number and you get through (usually) to an english based service.

So they don't mind giving exsisting punters the run around in an offshore CS operation, but aren't prepared to expose potential 'brand new customers' to that level of service#

Wonder why that might be ....

That is quite an interesting point. Mind you dial the sales number and you get answered straight away, dial the CS number, wherever the call centre is, and you get 20 minutes of Greensleeves and an irritating automated woman trying to ingratiate herself by pointing out how important your call is (though obviously not as important as that of a potential customer). If it was that sodding important to them they'd have answered it by now! Have I taken this way off topic Sorry!

[Xaccers]

Generally sales is only open during British daylight hours, therefore they don't require expensive shift workers, so better value for money to employ British staff.
CS on the other hand generally is open for longer, and with banking, alot offer 24hr CS, as such it's cheaper to base your CS centers where the "best value for money" can be acheived. Remember though, best value for money is from the company's point of view, not necessarily the same as the customer's!

Thankfully I find HSBC's services so good I rarely have to call them. The last time was to tell them of my new address, and it went a bit like this:

me: Leighton Buzzard
CS: Leighton Buzzard
me: Bedfordshire
CS: Bedfordshire, London
me: No, not London, it's no where near london
CS: So that's Leighton Buzzard, London, Bedfordshire?
me: No, just Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire
CS: So that's Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire?
me: yes
CS: London?
me: no, no london, nothing to do with London!

[GreenBars]

The best customer service I've ever received has been from OneForAll (universal remote controls). A Dutch company with customer services based in Holland -the operators speak better English than you almost ever hear from English centres. Not exactly a low wage economy but for the sake of good service couldn't we move our call centres over there?

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Russ D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4353423.stm

When will those idiots learn...

I don't mean to pick holes here, as I do largely agree with your sentiments...but....

What other reason is there to avoid HSBC? This is one of the few criticisms I've heard about them.

In my experience HSBC offers amongst the best of all the banks when it comes to customer service. I will say it has on a couple of occasions recently slipped a little, but these were UK staff I was dealing with.

Originally Posted by Tuftus

Here here!!!

NatWest are another bank who dont have overseas call centres.

Conversely Natwest offers (IMHO) amongst the worst levels of service from all of the banks.

Originally Posted by Russ D

I'm not hypocritical - I'm against outsourcing because of the degredation in customer service.

The jobs being outsourced at HSBC are clerical (one assumes data entry) roles. Outsourcing these should not affect customer service.

I should also point out that the statement from HSBC was more generic, not referring to a specific round of cuts or even job losses in the UK. We have no idea whether the outsourced roles will create better opportunities for its UK staff, the cuts will come from natural wasteage or if they will require redundancies.

Originally Posted by scrotnig

UK companies serving UK customers should have those jobs in the UK.

What? Period? What about manufacturing? I bought a laptop bag today, quality item, UK company, made in China. Do you honestly think I would have only paid a tenner for it if it had been made in the UK?

Originally Posted by scrotnig

UK jobs should be in the UK. Period. If it means taxing the firms to the hilt if they offshore, then fine.

Which is the point when large companies decide to up-sticks, leave the country and either import to the UK or not bother with us at all.

Originally Posted by Russ D

I don't want to have to repeat myself over and over again because they don't understand my Welsh accent. That has NEVER happened to me from a UK callcentre.

But it happens the other way around for me (with my BBC Home Counties accent). I often have to ask customer service people with such stereotypically heavy Welsh or Glaswegian accents to repeat themselves becuase I can't understand what they are saying

Originally Posted by Russ D

I don't want to me met with "certainly please" each time I ask them to do something. I live in the UK and I demand that any company offering me a service here should speak our English.

So would it be OK if an British-Asian said 'certainly please' whilst being based in a UK office?


Whilst I don't like to see any job leave this country unecessarily, sometimes it is needed. It is worth bearing in mind that 90% of customer contact was done face to face 15 years ago, so these roles are not generally long established.

And whilst companies like Natwest spout on about UK call centres, they sub-contract data handling to companies that are not based in the UK, so it's somewhat hypocritical.

And the solution? Well there isn't one really. Corporate greed (and lord knows HSBC makes enough money) will always come first. Performance on the markets is more important than performance to customers, but there has to be a balance to make sure you have enough customers to keep the profits coming in - this is something that HSBC are very good at.