*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[slowcoach]

With metering around the corner I doubt NTL will want to get rid of heavy users at the moment, these are the users that NTL think they are going to milk later in the year, no doubt then they will be encouraging everyone to download to the max regardless of the impact on other users living near them, we may also see speeds going through the roof, just to guarantee that everyone goes over the cap.

It will be funny when the heavy downloaders suddenly become the good guys with NTL sending letters to the users who never go over the cap asking them to change their habits and start using more bandwidth, or else!.

Step by small step the NTL Master Plan is taking shape, the grey suits have it all mapped out, just one more hurdle, how to convince those buggers on Cable Forum that paying NTL a lot more each month is in everyoneââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s best interest, thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s the tricky bit.

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by slowcoach

With metering around the corner I doubt NTL will want to get rid of heavy users at the moment, these are the users that NTL think they are going to milk later in the year, no doubt then they will be encouraging everyone to download to the max regardless of the impact on other users living near them, we may also see speeds going through the roof, just to guarantee that everyone goes over the cap.

It will be funny when the heavy downloaders suddenly become the good guys with NTL sending letters to the users who never go over the cap asking them to change their habits and start using more bandwidth, or else!.

Step by small step the NTL Master Plan is taking shape, the grey suits have it all mapped out, just one more hurdle, how to convince those buggers on Cable Forum that paying NTL a lot more each month is in everyoneââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s best interest, thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s the tricky bit.

Glad you've got it all worked out then eh.

Do you actually think ntl's senior management sit around all day worrying what a couple of hundred people on an internet forum say? Most of them haven't even heard of the place.

Do try and get real. The company is interested in providing products which the VAST MAJORITY of its customers will buy.

Users of this forum DO NOT have any impact on what they do.

[goldoni]

I have just looked on the Carlsberg web site Link and they donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t do BB. Can anybody tell me of a company that offers a BB service with no cap or fair use policy in their T&C?

If you know of a company that offers a no cap BB service at a reasonable price please advise.

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by Little_Devil

Why have any cap, after all, we allready have one of the slowest services in the world.
Just look at south Korea 20M service no cap, Japan 50M service no cap. Why do people put up with this BS, this is a competative market, where even BT are now running trials on an 8M service.
If no one bought into a capped rate service, how long would it last?

But people always will because the VAST MAJORITY of people look at 1gb per day and think 'no way will I ever get near that'.

I daresay if you fast forward a few years that might be different, but then ntl and other companies will move with the market.

Just look at how broadband has changed in the LAST three years. Three years ago £30 for 512k was considered an acceptable price...several ISPd were charging £29.99 back then. Imagine charging that much now for that speed.

The market will move, and ISPs such as ntl will move with it.

What nobody is going to do is create low cost services for people who *cough* "download 30 Linux distros a week" because it's simply not cost effective to do so.

[Rone]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

But people always will because the VAST MAJORITY of people look at 1gb per day and think 'no way will I ever get near that'.

I daresay if you fast forward a few years that might be different, but then ntl and other companies will move with the market.

Lets hope NTL do move forward. Atm its giant steps backward [apart from upping speed] and trying to copy\upstage BT the rest of the time.

[Paul K]

I keep wondering why people keep moaning about NTL's cap and then mention Tiscali in the same breath. Having seen this I'm still none the wiser.

Tiscali Fair Usage Policy

Important Note: Clause 8.4 from the Tiscali Broadband Terms and Conditions.

8.4 Tiscali operates a fair usage policy, if you send and receive 30GB or more of data in any calendar month and we believe that your use of the broadband service is adversely affecting our network (or any part of it) or other customers, we may regulate your usage (at our sole discretion). For example, we may give priority to light users over heavy users during peak times. Tiscali reserves the right to terminate your broadband service by providing you with 30 days' notice in writing in the event that you send and receive in excess of 30GB or more data in any calendar month and we believe your use of the broadband service is adversely affecting our network (or any part of it) or our other customers and our regulation of your usage has been ineffective.

Oh and to make it even funnier Wanado has a 1Mb service for £28 on a 30Gb cap and BT broadband is even better:

BT Broadband has a usage allowance of 15 GB of data transferred per month. This is suitable for the vast majority of users.
BT will not apply this usage allowance until early 2005. After the date, if your monthly usage allowance limit is exceeded, you will have the choice of a restricted service for the remainder of the month or the option to buy additional usage capacity.
BT will confirm prices for additional usage nearer the time. Indicative prices are £2 per additional GB.

[Doofy]

To the person who gave me the rep points with the following comments and i quote "Doesn't matter to ntl what the content is. Also the computers does the downloading not the person." wtf planet are some people on,this has got to be a new argument against capping i have heard it all now. It wasnt me it was the comp it did it all by itself without a single piece of user intervention. i mean please. I did say that some people needed to get out more i rest my case.

[stuG]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Do you actually think ntl's senior management sit around all day worrying what a couple of hundred people on an internet forum say? Most of them haven't even heard of the place.

I have a question reference this quote.... If the "problem" is only a few hundred people out of 1 million users, I really do not think that this something NTL will worry about at all.

My question to all of you is .... do you think ntl will even really bother going thru all this for sub 1000 users as indicated by scrotnig's comments ?

Personally I think not ... there is something else and I will bang my drum ... why cap the download when the upload has more of an effect on the network.

[cookie_365]

Originally Posted by JamieLee2k

If you are paying for it you should be able to use the internet any time you want, without NTL or other ******s looking over your back at what you are downloading and how much you are downloading, it's all about money at the end of the day, yes the speeds are good, but if you can't use them to your advantage cus of the Caps that NTL ******s are putting on then whats the point, I am going to find a company that doesn't rely on caps to bring there customers to them even if it means lowering my speeds, lease I can download and upload to my hearts content.

I play Xbox Live all the time when I am at home and I always have my internet connection on, for a very good reason and I should not be bullied into having caps. I pay the money and so I have right's.

NTL ***** you

Adios

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by Rone

Lets hope NTL do move forward. Atm its giant steps backward [apart from upping speed] and trying to copy\upstage BT the rest of the time.

If you seriously consider the recent moves to be a giant step backwards, you really do need to find another ISP.
__________________

Originally Posted by JamieLee2k

If you are paying for it you should be able to use the internet any time you want, without NTL or other ******s looking over your back at what you are downloading and how much you are downloading, it's all about money at the end of the day, yes the speeds are good, but if you can't use them to your advantage cus of the Caps that NTL ******s are putting on then whats the point, I am going to find a company that doesn't rely on caps to bring there customers to them even if it means lowering my speeds, lease I can download and upload to my hearts content.

I play Xbox Live all the time when I am at home and I always have my internet connection on, for a very good reason and I should not be bullied into having caps. I pay the money and so I have right's.

NTL ***** you

You have rights? What rights would these be? The right to bugger up the service everyone else? What about everyone else's 'rights'?

You've been watching too many consumer programmes.

I'll remind you and everyone else who shares your view what the ONLY reason a company like ntl is in business for. The ONLY reason, is to make a profit. Users who want to max out their connections consititute the minority, but they cost the company money. In other words, there is no profit in having you on the service. Therefore the only 'right' you have is to the 30 days notice ntl will give you when they terminate your contract, if you continually exceed the bandwidth limit.

Too many people seem to think private companies have some of sort of moral and solcial obligation to do certain things. They don't. Any customer is free to choose another provider if they aren't happy with the one they currently have. That, again, is the capitalist system.

If you don't like the capitalist system, go and live in Russia.
__________________

Originally Posted by stuG

I have a question reference this quote.... If the "problem" is only a few hundred people out of 1 million users, I really do not think that this something NTL will worry about at all.

My question to all of you is .... do you think ntl will even really bother going thru all this for sub 1000 users as indicated by scrotnig's comments ?

Personally I think not ... there is something else and I will bang my drum ... why cap the download when the upload has more of an effect on the network.

I could be wrong here, but I read somewhere that it had been established that the cap covered uploads as well. Could be wrong though.....

[stuG]

I think you missed my point from some posts ago.

If you cap the upload only ... (which ignition said affects some parts of the network currently and ideally), you would really be getting at the people that really affect the network eg the kazaa kids. By capping them and dealing with them it would give 2 things.... highlight the ones using for potentially violating the AUP and thus providing proof to the organisations riaa/mpaa/bsa that something has and is being actively managed.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by JamieLee2k

If you are paying for it you should be able to use the internet any time you want, without NTL or other ******s looking over your back at what you are downloading and how much you are downloading, it's all about money at the end of the day

That's an excellent idea, as ntl operate at a nominal 20:1 contention ratio maybe all users should be hard capped so they get what they pay for and no more. Hit 1.5GB a day on 3M 1GB/day 2M and your service disappears for the rest of the day.
Thanks for that suggestion.
P.S. you don't need an apostrophe ' to pluralise.

Originally Posted by patchwork

If they are stuggling now due to 5% of the users downloading 10GB then we are probably looking at a company on the slope to bankrupcy.

Damn, in that case I suppose pretty much every other ISP in the world is on the way to bankruptcy as well, infact any ISP that has ever taken action against heavy users or applied caps to their service. As they won't upgrade to accomodate a tiny % of the userbase wanting to download like hell must be on the brink.

Originally Posted by patchwork

2 Movies @ 1.5Gb each
3 Episodes of eastenders = 2GB
2 games, lets say they use 1GB between them

This totals 6GB, and that's just a few hours of light entertainment in the evening.

Blimey... find me a family that actually does that. Find me a couple of online games that use 500MB each over the course of an evening.

If this is daily use it's insane. I think most people still generally use the TV, tend to catch up with EastEnders on the omnibus edition or the other BBC channels, and tend to download the odd movie now and then rather than making it a daily occurance.

I could quite happily say 'What if I want to download the entire games ISO section of nforce.nl' doesn't make it 'typical' usage...

Originally Posted by patchwork

I can get uncapped high speed ADSL, a phone line (with better night time rates) and a better TV package for less than NTL are charging me, and I won't have big brother analyzing every byte I choose to download, or telling me when I can and cannot use the service I pay top money for.

NOW we're getting somewhere. Considering that you can get better phone and TV deals than ntl are offering just why are you with them? Run, run away! It's consumer choice, it's great, you don't like a service you take your business elsewhere... or complain about it on a forum. Wonder which is the most constructive?

Originally Posted by patchwork

I must also point out that since my upgrade to 3Mb my connection hasn't been too good at all, I'm not getting full bandwidth speeds when I want them and its also disconnected half a dozen times, even those cheapo ADSL services do better than that LOL.

Sorry to hear that you can't get full speeds all the time. Your disconnects are in no way related to the upgrade, and imply a fault causing the slow speeds rather than anything else. Of course it could be a side effect that would be a hell of a lot worse if services were all uncapped. It's called contention. You can't expect full speeds all the time, especially on uncapped deals and I pity the support department of an unlimited 8Mbit ISP with you as a customer. BT right now are warning ISPs taking part in their 8Mbit trial to advise customers to expect throughput as low as 2Mbit/s at peak times.

You'd love the super Japanese deals, where you don't see much over 20Mbps ever on a 100Mbit line, and going outside of Japan you see a couple of Mbit or so (though this is the part that people like to forget when worshipping Japan, Korea, etc).

Originally Posted by Little Devil

Why have any cap, after all, we allready have one of the slowest services in the world.
Just look at south Korea 20M service no cap, Japan 50M service no cap. Why do people put up with this BS, this is a competative market, where even BT are now running trials on an 8M service.
If no one bought into a capped rate service, how long would it last?

Why have any cap? Well, I'm going to be as blunt as I can and frankly don't really care who I offend.

As a general guide we can fit maybe 1200 users onto a uBR card before we start seeing capacity issues. Sometimes a lot, lot, less, but 1200 modems is about as high as we can normally go.

I have been speaking to a friend with an ISP whose tiers are 10Mbit/1Mbit and 5.5Mbit/640kbit. Running these bandwidths they can fit up to 2000 modems onto a single card and still provide a good service.

Bluntly speaking if there weren't so many people caning their bandwidth, meanwhile demanding that they never see their speed drop below the maximum our speeds would be faster, as the speeds could be higher, prices lower. Those bitching about the speeds while saying they'd rather have 1Mbit uncapped than 3Mbit capped are shooting themselves in the arse, along with those of us who would rather have burst speed than download slowly but constantly.

Yes, South Korea has 100Mbit services, although the bit you don't think about is that once you leave the major cities you are faced with paying about £20 for 1.5Mbit, still cheaper than here but not much. Japan have 100Mbit, however you'll never get near 100Mbit inside Japan (it's that big UK swearword contention wooooo), and once you leave Japan and go to the USA, Europe, etc most Japanese see closer to 2 - 3Mbit of throughput. Their bottleneck is in their transit links rather than the access networks.

BT's 8Mbit trials aren't running just yet, and the ADSL2+ trial is for employees only. See above for BT's warnings regarding performance degredation.

People are buying into capped rate services, simply because they offer them a better deal than the more 'communist' type services where everyone pays the same regardless of whether they want to download 1GB/month or 1000GB/month. It means better deals for them as they don't have to subsidise other people's usage. Can you blame Granny who checks her mail once a day for wanting to spend £17 a month rather than going unlimited and having to pay an extra 6 quid?

Originally Posted by stuG

If you cap the upload only ... (which ignition said affects some parts of the network currently and ideally), you would really be getting at the people that really affect the network

Sorry dude that used to be the case but after the increases in download making the ratio of download to upload 10:1 there's more capacity for downloading to affect the local networks than uploading.

[Rone]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

If you seriously consider the recent moves to be a giant step backwards, you really do need to find another ISP.

"Atm its giant steps backward [apart from upping speed] "

Umm you didnt read line 2, personally i cant see any other benefits than speed upgrade.
Maybe you could share all the other benefits with us less informed people?
Ty.

Originally Posted by Doofy

To the person who gave me the rep points with the following comments and i quote "Doesn't matter to ntl what the content is. Also the computers does the downloading not the person." wtf planet are some people on,this has got to be a new argument against capping i have heard it all now. It wasnt me it was the comp it did it all by itself without a single piece of user intervention. i mean please. I did say that some people needed to get out more i rest my case.

What did i warn you. Put the Anti knife in the back vest on. You have joined the dark side now

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by Rone

"Atm its giant steps backward [apart from upping speed] "

Umm you didnt read line 2, personally i cant see any other benefits than speed upgrade.
Maybe you could share all the other benefits with us less informed people?
Ty.

What benefits do you expect to find in a speed upgrade, other than a speed upgrade?