*ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by mcmanic

NTL have stated that they will be monitoring 1meg users only, all it say about 2/3meg users is they have the right to contact you if "regularly exceed their daily usage allowance, where such excessive use impacts the quality of service for other ntl broadband customers."
where does it say monitoring? - too me thats not monitoring UNLESS someone phones in and complains of bad speed in your area upon which its checked out where its going and to whom.

Oh ok so presumably we never upgrade until people start complaining, as we have no idea how much is being used on our network

Originally Posted by mcmanic

so the bit where you say "but the fact still remains that ntl will be addressing users who they feel exceed their definition of acceptable use." - has been said ever since 1.5meg was brought out and no-one unless outlined by above has been contacted.

Simple fact NTL hasn't ATM got the gear to cap us, so how can it be called capping?, it isn't - but like this post it proves that clever wording by NTL makes everyone believe that they are and follow the guidline when infact you have to be extremely unlucky to be contacted

Really?

The capacity exists now to check the usage of every user on the network and from that query produce the MAC addresses of all customers using over 30GB.

Of course, that's unfair until we provide a means for customers to check their usage online.

However those using a ton of bandwidth would be well advised to 'reconsider' - there's nothing stopping ntl from right now dealing with them individually, we do actually know who high users are, and they are left alone through choice not because we're clueless 'n00bs' - if you aren't hurting anyone's service you'll generally be left be.

Contrary to popular opinion the upgrade budget isn't unlimited and we all have to work within those constraints, so if a single user is affecting the service of many that's a very strong reason to consider action, and is indeed the primary concern of the guidelines. Neither ourselves nor any cable company in the world has the resources to upgrade areas ad infinitum. All cable companies have bad areas where usage is so high there's just no chance of upgrades being worthwhile there, and these areas are either left congested or highest users contacted to try and persuade them to calm down.

I can think easily of 3 North American cablecos and an area each for them that is heavy usage and just too expensive to upgrade.

[purenuman]

Originally Posted by jtwn

The fact of the matter that downloading copyrighted material for personal use is NOT illegal in the UK.

Only if you have the copyright holders permission

Without it of course it's illegal.

[Rone]

Cheers for that Ignition, as usual you have answered a few questions that have only been touched upon.
Will NTL be providing a "self monitoring" program\software then?

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

NTL's defintion of "normal" use has no mention of upstream, so by my understanding keeping a torrent of a linux .iso open for other to download from you is not against the AUP.

It would be in contravention of the AUP if it affected the service other customers are receiving. The relevant section is

2. General Use

As a general principle, you must not use the Services in any way that is unlawful or illegal or in a way that affects the enjoyment of other users of the Services.

Now if you know much about how NTLs broadband is structured you will know that upstream can easily by maxed out on a UBR card if several users are maxing out their uploads. This point is reached much sooner with users now having more upload bandwidth available.

My feeling is that with the increased speeds NTL may be getting in touch with the really heavy users if their usage is not moderated whereas they haven't bothered in the past. Some people are saying that the cap will only be a soft cap and you can continue doing what you want with your connection until later in the year. Don't bank on it.

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by Ignition

Do you work for ntl, in which case can you tell me if the 30GB includes uploads or is it just downloads?
__________________

Originally Posted by purenuman

Only if you have the copyright holders permission

Without it of course it's illegal.

It's not a criminal offence, it's a civil matter.

Originally Posted by ian@huth

Some people are saying that the cap will only be a soft cap and you can continue doing what you want with your connection until later in the year. Don't bank on it.

Would you care to comment on the fact that I have been (perhaps) reliably informed by one of the ex-higher ups at NTL that they aren`t actually technically capable of measuring individual usage above and beyond session start and end times. As I say, this is what I've been told, hence I`m not making any assumptions about the accuracy of this statement.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Do you work for ntl, in which case can you tell me if the 30GB includes uploads or is it just downloads?

Who are you asking?

Either way, I've already give you the link to check for yourself.

1) http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/broadband

2) http://www.home.ntl.com/page/broadbandusage
__________________

Originally Posted by dr wadd

Would you care to comment on the fact that I have been (perhaps) reliably informed by one of the ex-higher ups at NTL that they aren`t actually technically capable of measuring individual usage above and beyond session start and end times. As I say, this is what I've been told, hence I`m not making any assumptions about the accuracy of this statement.

I'll do better than that-I'll get you Ignition.....

Oh Iggy, where are you.......!?

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by Neil

Who are you asking?

Either way, I've already give you the link to check for yourself.

1) http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/broadband

2) http://www.home.ntl.com/page/broadbandusage

I was asking Ignition.. I meant to quote a blank post but at first it didn't work, so I did a quick edit.

As I said before, those links you give DO NOT say whether it includes uploads or not.

[purenuman]

Originally Posted by dirtydog

It's not a criminal offence, it's a civil matter.

Yes... An illegal [Prohibited by law or by official or accepted rules] civil matter

[Hans Gruber]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

It would be in contravention of the AUP if it affected the service other customers are receiving.

IF it was affecting other people. I've had broadband with NTL now for getting on for 4 years, I have NEVER been unable to achieve my max download speed (due to NTL), which would suggest NTL have no capacity problems in my area.

The relevant section is Now if you know much about how NTLs broadband is structured you will know that upstream can easily by maxed out on a UBR card if several users are maxing out their uploads. This point is reached much sooner with users now having more upload bandwidth available.

My feeling is that with the increased speeds NTL may be getting in touch with the really heavy users if their usage is not moderated whereas they haven't bothered in the past. Some people are saying that the cap will only be a soft cap and you can continue doing what you want with your connection until later in the year. Don't bank on it.

Of course I understand how upstream could affect other people. It would be down to NTL to let you know if your usage was affecting others (there is no way a user could monitor such things) as long as they keep within the AUP. ANY online activity could IN THEORY affect other people if the network wasn't up to it. The fact is uploading of any description (other than business use) is not against the AUP, and that was the only point I was making.

There's no need to keep reminding people what could happen in a worse case scenario.

[dirtydog]

Originally Posted by purenuman

Yes... An illegal [Prohibited by law or by official or accepted rules] civil matter

Okay you got me

[jtwn]

Originally Posted by cr80123

I think he means it's not against criminal law (unless you try and sell copyrighted material). You cannot be arrested for downloading copyrighted material, the owner of the copyright would have to initiate a civil action against you.

Yes that is what i mean.

http://p2pnet.net/story/4125

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by dr wadd

Would you care to comment on the fact that I have been (perhaps) reliably informed by one of the ex-higher ups at NTL that they aren`t actually technically capable of measuring individual usage above and beyond session start and end times. As I say, this is what I've been told, hence I`m not making any assumptions about the accuracy of this statement.

I refer you to Ignitions post #1141 above.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by Neil

I'll do better than that-I'll get you Ignition.....

Oh Iggy, where are you.......!?

Ah, oh usage.

Erm, yup, we have usage stats internally, is just a case of getting them presented in a pretty way externally.

These are down to the single cable modem level, so if required we can certainly measure usage on an individual modem, there's a simple and (inside the company) publically available webpage to do this and present it as pretty graphs.

Obviously the database that these graphs are built on is manipulateable as well, queries as I referred to earlier can be run on it.

However when usage stats are available they will be using a different system.

[jtwn]

Ignition, question, does ntl have the capability to monitor usage throughout the network as of now?