Muslims should expect to be stopped....

[carlingman]

Originally Posted by punky

Anyone watching "This Week" right now? Paul Ross is making some extremely good arguments in favour of house arrest, terrorism prevention, etc.

Is he talking about his brother for house arrest Jonathan Woss.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Graham

In other words: "Hey, Muslims, other people who call themselves Muslim are being naughty boys, so we're going to target your entire group to be on the safe side. Deal with it"

Unfortunately - yes.

[NitroNutter]

3 arrested in coventry by Scotland Yard last Tuesday apparently, 2 men 1 woman in connection with international terrorism.

Kinda close to my home town. Who has a problem with it cuz I dont.

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

3 arrested in coventry by Scotland Yard last Tuesday apparently, 2 men 1 woman in connection with international terrorism.
Kinda close to my home town. Who has a problem with it cuz I dont.

One assumes or has to assume these days, that they were nice people with never an unkind thought in their heads, good to their neighbours and pillars of the community! Perhaps they merely wanted to build a nice school in Afghanistan for equally minded nice people!

[Xaccers]

Graham, can you just clarify something, are you saying that the Anti Terrorist measures shouldn't be targetting the group which the terrorists belong (or claim) to?

Are you also suggesting (or do you believe) that the Anti Terrorist forces would turn a blind eye/ignore/fail to take seriously/fail to respond to any reported non-muslim terrorism intelligence?


(appologies if you've already clarified the above, but could you do it again in plain English as I'm playing catch up. Thank you)

Originally Posted by me283

Burden of proof? OK, try this: some police officers are racist... prove that they all are.

I can't. But there again, I never claimed that they all were.

And next time you see a gang of skinheads stood outside a Mosque with a gallon or ten of petrol and some matches, chanting about death... prove that they aren't on their way to a barbecue whilst reciting the lyrics to some heavy metal songs.

Please stop being silly. This is not helping your arguments at all.

Get real will you? If you go through life justifying everything you do in advance, you will do nothing. Why? Because you cannot justify the unknown. The 9/11 pilots could have been mid-air joyriders ny your logic. It was only when they hit the Twin Towers that they became genocidal maniacs. Or could you have "proven" that was their intention far enough in advance?

Me283 I see little point in continuing this any further as this has ceased to be a reasonable debate.
__________________

Originally Posted by Pierre

Unfortunately - yes.

Unfortunately, indeed.

Stupid? I certainly think so.
__________________

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Graham, can you just clarify something, are you saying that the Anti Terrorist measures shouldn't be targetting the group which the terrorists belong (or claim) to?

They should target terrorist *groups*.

They should *NOT* target Islam simply because the terrorists call themselves "Muslims".

Are you also suggesting (or do you believe) that the Anti Terrorist forces would turn a blind eye/ignore/fail to take seriously/fail to respond to any reported non-muslim terrorism intelligence?

No, but I've never said that.

[me283]

Here's a question: It appears that these proposed measures may cause friction between Muslims and the rest of society... but according to whom? I may be unaware of it, but I have not heard any gripes from the Muslim Council of Great Britain, for example? It may well be that the Muslim community appreciate the reasoning behind these actions, and fully support them? Is it possible that it is the liberal do-gooders among us who are just stirring up trouble where there may be none? Should we not let the Muslims decide if it offends them, instead of deciding in advance that it will?

Originally Posted by me283

I have not heard any gripes from the Muslim Council of Great Britain, for example? [...]Should we not let the Muslims decide if it offends them, instead of deciding in advance that it will?

Perhaps you just haven't looked hard enough:

There was an angry response to her comments from Muslim leaders. One on an Islamic human rights commission, Massoud Shadjareh, accused Blears of †œplaying an Islamophobia cardâ₠¬Ã‚Â� in the run-up to a general election.

†œShe is demonising and alienating our community,ââ ¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ� he said. †œIt is a legitimisation for a backlash and for racists to have an onslaught on our community. This sort of comment is just music to the ears of racists.ââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ�

Statistics showed that of the 17 people found guilty of terrorist acts in the UK since the September 11 attacks, only four of the 12 whose ethnic backgrounds were known were Muslim, he added. However, figures published last week showed that people from ethnic minorities were increasingly likely to be targeted by police stop and search tactics.

Inayat Bunglawala, spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, suggested Blears was †œscaremongeringà ¢â‚¬Ã†šÃ‚ÂÂ� to help get controversial anti-terror laws allowing †œcontrol ordersââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ� on terror suspects on to the statue books.

He said: †œHer comments are thoroughly unhelpful at a time when British Muslims are undeniably facing a growing climate of Islamophobia.â↚¬ÂÂ�

http://www.telegraphindia.com/105030...ry_4447671.asp

[me283]

Originally Posted by Graham

Perhaps you just haven't looked hard enough:



http://www.telegraphindia.com/105030...ry_4447671.asp

Fair point. Thank you.

[Xaccers]

How exactly do you target muslims specifically unless you hang around outside mosques and follow them...

Originally Posted by Graham

Perhaps you just haven't looked hard enough:

http://www.telegraphindia.com/105030...ry_4447671.asp

A very fascinating article.

It even includes a perfect example of the kind of threat we face:

...Earlier this week, a British born Muslim, Saajid Badat, 25, who had grown up in Gloucester, confessed he had gone to Pakistan and picked up kit to be a shoe bomber with the intention of blowing up an American aircraft over the Atlantic. He had been an associate of Richard Reid, the notorious †œshoe bomberââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ� from Britain who is now serving a life sentence. Badat later changed his mind.

Early pictures of Badat show him as a football loving Grammar School boy in Gloucester but recent photographs reveal a full Islamic beard. His family came to Britain from Malawi.

Not only do islamic terrorists by definition claim to belong to the Islamic faith (see article), they also seem to be going out of their way to look like they belong.

Is it any wonder that 'looking like the enemy' ends up being the benchmark upon which we base our suspicions?

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Is it any wonder that 'looking like the enemy' ends up being the benchmark upon which we base our suspicions?
[/left]

Great, so let's arrest everyone with a beard...

[Seti]

Years ago, when I was young, I was taught about stuff like propoganda and stereotyping. I feel that this is what is being attempted against the muslim community. A while back on BBC2 there was a documentary aired called "The Power of Nightmares". Clearly this showed some new racial stereotpying techniques and how some material is given to the media in order to make the general public scared and therefore frightened of one group. I suggest that, if any of you can, you watch it. It definetly opened my eyes.

In this case it is the Muslim community.

Does anyone remember a while back all the stereotypical aruguments and generalisations about the Irish and the black community ? It is well known that police used to stop black youths a lot more than white youths. In fact I think it is documented in the statistics for crime. the Irish went through stricter customs controls just in case they were coming in with bombs or semtex or guns or something!!

All the government and media are now doing is changing the publics' focus onto something new; a new race, a new threat a new migration problem. The vast majority of the muslim community are decent, hard-working, law abiding citizens whom are not in the least a threat.

There are threads elsewhere on the forum regarding house arrest and the individuals who were locked up in Belmarsh prison, detained without a trial. It has been documented, see The Independent, Daily Mail etc, that these individuals were not in the least a threat. One attended a wedding in Pakistan !! some are now coming out with mental health problems becasue of the incarceration, they were kept in a separate wing with very little privileges. Belmarsh is a category A prison, that means it houses people like Huntley and murderers and all sorts of serious offenders.

Think, what did these guys do ? Luckily the House of Lords has stood up for our rights, and freedom, and stopped the "house arrest" Program from going through.

If we are now to stop every muslim in this country then how are we to resource it for a start. How do we know who is mulism and who isn't ? There are different forms of the faith and different cultures to consider. They don't all have beards and wear long flowing clothes. Albanians and Turkish people are mostly muslim. Their women do not wear the same sort of clothing as those from Pakistan or Iraq. In fact most of them are Westernised, they may just wear a head scarf. Oops isn't that just like the Cathoilics do in some nations ?

I suggest all women here hide their scarves and hats just in case they are stopped !!

It's a question of how far you would like the State to go in invading your civil liberties.

Sian

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

Great, so let's arrest everyone with a beard...

Good idea!
Beards are bad!
Ban the beards!


On a more serious note, lets also keep an eye out for anyone acting suspiciously especially if they are acting suspiciously in an area which could be a terrorist target and if they happen to look like they could belong to a terrorist organisation and forget this PC bovine excriment.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Good idea!
Beards are bad!
Ban the beards!


On a more serious note, lets also keep an eye out for anyone acting suspiciously especially if they are acting suspiciously in an area which could be a terrorist target and if they happen to look like they could belong to a terrorist organisation and forget this PC bovine excriment.

And how do we *tell* if they "happen to look like they could belong to a terrorist organisation"...?

Here we go round the mulberry bush. Again.