NTL unbundle digital from Telco

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by dilligaf1701

I'm confused how people are having trouble with it at all to be honest....

p.s. and am waiting for scrotnig's head to explode very wetly shortly.

I'm not arguing that the service has been unbundled - all I'm doing is pointing out what I experienced which is that it allowed me to go through the ordering stage without ordering a phone line which is bizarre.

Looks like a fault on the ordering site (obviously) which no doubt some punters will not realise and will order the TV service only to end up also getting a phone line installed!

You shouldnt have to go through an on line ordering process looking out for NTL's mistakes! So if it let's you order without a phone line then I hope NTL honour the order.

Originally Posted by dilligaf1701

p.s. and am waiting for scrotnig's head to explode very wetly shortly.

not a pleasant though as I think that yellow face already looks a little exploded!

[simpsonsFAN]

Originally Posted by poolking

simpsonsfan did you try CTRL+F5 a few times?

yes, thats what got rid of the popup for me in the first place!.

I also used a "?" then random numbers after the url to fool the ntl caches into the latest copy of the page and that also got rid of the popup.

Now I have tried this on 3 internal home network PC's. no popup.
I also tried this on a UK2 dialup connection, with the IE cache cleared. no popup.

it is you that is seeing the cached page, not me.

If you still dont belive me I would be happy to let one of you use remote desktop on my pc so you can watch me open internet explorer, clear the cache then visit ntl.com and get to the base pack confirmation page at only £10p/m.

so, yes, ok, maby ntl have not intentionly unbundled telephone, but I know that if a direct debit is setup with a confirmation at £10p/m, there is no way of ntl takeing £19, without a new statement, Okonski will get a new statement for £29 in 12 months time unless he cancels, but as far as im aware there is no "12 month free phone line rental promotional code" for base pack, so you get billed for £10p/m by direct debit and you get base pack with no telephone.

-Chris

[scrotnig]

I have just been to a new PC at work where that page has NEVER been loaded, and I am STILL getting the popup, so those who are not need to check their systems.

Besides, as has been posted already, there's a clear and very large warning on the front page that you have to pay for line rental.

Those who think they are going to change legal history by winning a case based based on the absence or otherwise of a popup box are mistaken. The warning on the website covers it 100%, and that's before the legally binding contract complete with prices that will be issued before you are installed.

It's fun watching people decide that black is really white. Have fun with the ASA everyone. Remember those huge grey letters when they're laughing at you.

[etccarmageddon]

I've tried it this morning on my work pc - no pop up.

[scrotnig]

What page are you using?

I navigate from the front page to order TV and end up here:
http://www.home.ntl.com/bin/venda?ex...¶m1=television

From there, I enter a postcode and click continue

Then I select an address and click continue

Then I put a tick in 'television' and click 'start shopping'.

I make sure there's a dot in 'base pack' then I click 'continue'.

The next page loads, but a popup appears saying 'You must order a Telephone package before you can order a Digital Television package. You will now be redirected to the Telephone Services page'.

I'm afraid anyone not getting that popup from that sequence of pages has got a system issue, period.

Just for a laugh I tried it myself, and didnt get the pop-up.

[bigitup_j]

i've tried for my self several times. most the time i get a pop-up, the other times, no pop-up!!
maybe a mistake on the ntl page.

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by Earl of Bronze

Just for a laugh I tried it myself, and didnt get the pop-up.

Then you have something on your system that is blocking it.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

What page are you using?

www.ntl.co.uk

enter postcode

then select house from numbers offered

click on 'continue'

put a tick under the 'TV' section to say 'I'm interested in TV' then click on 'start shopping'.

family pack is defaulted in the windows "radio button" and shows as £19.50

scroll down screen and click on 'continue' avoiding selecting additional channel packages.

I then get my order with TV plus install of £50 which has a credit after it to show it's a free install - I can then click 'order now'.

just done it from your link and same problem - a)no pop up telling me to order phone and b)it allows the order to go through as just TV.


what postcode are you putting in Mark?

[bob_builder]

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

so, yes, ok, maby ntl have not intentionly unbundled telephone, but I know that if a direct debit is setup with a confirmation at £10p/m, there is no way of ntl takeing £19, without a new statement, Okonski will get a new statement for £29 in 12 months time unless he cancels, but as far as im aware there is no "12 month free phone line rental promotional code" for base pack, so you get billed for £10p/m by direct debit and you get base pack with no telephone.

Irrespective of whether there is a popup or not (incidentaly, I do not get one) there are disclaimers on the bottom of every page stating that you need to have a telephone line as well. Even if you get a page and order it at £10 per month, NTL will inform you that you will require to have a phone line as well before you sign the contract that they will send out.

The Direct Debit details that you give are not authorising NTL to debit £10 per month, they are authorising NTL to debit whatever they bill you each month, i.e. £19.50 PLUS any call charges!

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

www.ntl.co.uk

enter postcode

then select house from numbers offered

click on 'continue'

put a tick under the 'TV' section to say 'I'm interested in TV' then click on 'start shopping'.

family pack is defaulted in the windows "radio button" and shows as £19.50

scroll down screen and click on 'continue' avoiding selecting additional channel packages.

I then get my order with TV plus install of £50 which has a credit after it to show it's a free install - I can then click 'order now'.

just done it from your link and same problem - a)no pop up telling me to order phone and b)it allows the order to go through as just TV.


what postcode are you putting in Mark?

I have tried going the same route from the ntl.co.uk domain and I still get a popup.

I am using a Manchester postcode, which is ex-C&W. I have also tried using a random (but serviceable) Leicester postcode, reason being Leicester is a legacy area, and I still get the popup.
__________________

Originally Posted by simpsonsFAN

so, yes, ok, maby ntl have not intentionly unbundled telephone

They haven't unbundled telephone at all.

Which bit of "The TV price is exclusive of your £9.50 telephone line rental which must be taken with your TV package." in great big grey letters don't people understand?

All that's happeneing here is that people are ignoring that, trying to pick holes in the ordering process, and somehow claiming this means ntl has secretly unbundled telephone without telling anyone.

Why will people not listen to the many STAFF in this thread who have stated that this isn't the case?

The ordering document on the website is NOT a legally binding document. It is, in fact, no different to sending an email to a salesman saying "I would like to buy TV services please".

The legally binding bit comes in the form of a contract, and even THAT is not legally binding until accepted by both parties.

So, the popup or lack of it is a totally moot point. It has no bearing WHATSOEVER on any legal obligations. In the event that someone submits an order for TV without phone, ntl will respond by telling you that you have to have the phone. You CANNOT then sue them for breach of contract, because their is NO contract at that point.

The advice earlier about Direct Debits is 100% correct. You are submitting bank details for an unspecified amount, as ntl bills are classed as 'variable' they will send you an advance notification (in the form of a bill) every month. Whether you originally signed up at £10 or £1000 a month is irrelevant. It is what the bill states that will be taken.

Please, all the barrack room lawyers, feel free to queue up and flame me and tell me I am wrong. You can spout as much piffle as you like, the above can all be confirmed by ntl's legal team, and I daresay they know a damned sight more about the law than the people protesting black is white in this thread.

Some of you have been watching too many consumer programmes, have gotten a few snippets of information, mixed those together with the strange and incorrect notion that a customer only has to insist on something for it to become their legal entitlement, and have then come up with the outlandish claims in this thread. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Consumer laws, Trading Standards Offices, the ASA, OFCOM, etc, are NOT there for customers to beat big companies with a heavy stick until they get their own way, they are there to protect BOTH sides.

[bob_a_builder]

Just for the record, followed "etccarmageddon"s steps

No pop up ! RG6 xxx, Tried base pack and Family pack

no pop up blocker installed

Yes on the 1st screen are 2 texts "Price excludes telephone line rental which must be purchased with your TV package. "

However I'm sure you would take a dim view if Amazon and the like displayed their 'shopping cart' with a final total minus £9.99

Relying on a pop-up which might be easily be blocked (don't believe so in my case) to 'alter' the final price seems silly at best, devious at worst

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by bob_a_builder

Just for the record, followed "etccarmageddon"s steps

No pop up ! RG6 xxx, Tried base pack and Family pack

no pop up blocker installed

Yes on the 1st screen are 2 texts "Price excludes telephone line rental which must be purchased with your TV package. "

However I'm sure you would take a dim view if Amazon and the like displayed their 'shopping cart' with a final total minus £9.99

Relying on a pop-up which might be easily be blocked (don't believe so in my case) to 'alter' the final price seems silly at best, devious at worst

also tried here with a baguley and a stockport postcode with no pop up blocker installed and no flaming pop up appears! both areas are ex C and W.

I'm of the opinion this order process is extrememly misleading and one would or at least could, as in your comparison with Amazon, take what appears in the cart on the final page as being definitive.

I also note that on the final order page there are bits of text such as "Price excludes telephone line rental which must be purchased with your TV package." which is also a strange way to run an order process.

Are NTL deliberately trying to misrepresent their prices? as I'm sure there are plenty of ways of making this clearer.

[scrotnig]

I am doing my best here guys, I am actually really keen to get this page to not display the popup so I can report it to someone, but I'm afraid no matter what I try it still comes up.

I can only repeat, if you're not getting the popup then there is something wrong with your system, because it certainly is not the website.

I am actually wanting to be proved wrong here now so that I can put this issue to bed by reporting the site as faulty, but I can't do that if it isn't!

[bob_a_builder]

The problem is being reliant on a pop up to convey such fundamental information.
Be up front about it - Do it as any other shopping cart show the true final cost !
Whats the point in ****ing customers off just as they are trying to become customers (or is that just to try to break them in gently for all the other little suprises NTL have in strore for them later on)

as a asp/jscript programmer I'm fairly confident there is not a problem with my system with regard to pop ups ( all my own sites pop up when and as required on this system)

Show us the pop up code from the pages you are viewing, and we'll tell you if that visible in the source of the pages we are viewing - that should help settle the 'wrong with our system' v 'old pages' argument