*ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2) - Page 9

21-02-2005, 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

I always laugh at the folks who reckon they can download 30 gig per month of legal data!

"I want unlimited BB because I download Linux distros"

How often does a Linux distro come out? I'd be surprised if there were 30 gigs worth of Linux distros released each month!

I want to download game demos & they're over a gig each!"

I personally believe the people that D/L over 30 or 40 gig per month are just leeching warez & should be big enough to admit it instead of the old "Linux Distros" chestnut.

And for those who say "But I up/download pictures & large documents to my work"-get a business connection & pay the relevant price for the privilege.

@ Martikus-My post wasn't aimed at you directly, more at the point you made about people who download "arge game demos"etc.

to the site btw.

Neil

Have a big green rep from me. That is a bang on post. NICE ONE

downquark1 · 21-02-2005, 18:53

I just want to point out I've never counted my bandwidth so I don't know if I use over 30gig a month, I was just pointing out some legal uses for high bandwidth caps.

Although when downloading from fileplanet the download would fail a few times so i must have clocked up about 7gig before giving up and getting my friend to dl it.

Mauldor · 21-02-2005, 19:10

Dial up, why could people not stay online 24/7 ??? Cos there was only so many racks of modems so they forced a 2 hour cut off so people had a fighting chance to connect when they called. Fast Forward to Now, All ISP's want to impose a Cap, to restrict your useage - reason (there is a few) not enough bandwidth to manage the number of people connected to one point. Sounds familiar - so can we say then the Model of Cable Modem / ADSL has been outgrown yes??

The workd of Data is growing, Game demos which used to be small now come in at a Full CD Almost, MMORPG clients are DVD Sizes (WoW etc). Everytime someone mentioned they download a lot, Immedialty people jump on the "you are a Pirate" Bus - I have No idea whatsoever how much I download a day never mind a month, any Utils are rendered useless as Im on a LAN - so that gets clocked up too.

Maybe in XX years time we will look back at Broadband the same way we look at Dial up now. When a Leased Line got installed for a company I worked at they never dug up the road from Bradford to London, yet they felt the need to charge if i remeber ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£45,000 a ayear (was some time back).

Im sure someone mentioned its fibre most of the way on NTL, the last bit been copper, is it not technically possible to somehow replace that copper bit with something else? Did they not wire (close to NTL I will admit) a 155mbit line as a test?

The Plusnet model I can understand (capping) as the cost to BT is factored in on the cost - NTL on the other hand do not pay BT for such things - why is NTL / Telewest not the leading edge rather than keeping up with the rest?

Chrysalis · 21-02-2005, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrotnig

Because if they did that, all the stupid pirate CD burners would stay up all night doing it instead.

ahh I see now so this isn't about quality of service it is about policing the internet.

cr80123 · 21-02-2005, 19:24

Yes that's all well and good Neil, and I've no doubt what you say is true in most cases. However do you agree that the reason for imposing limits is to enable ntl to increase the number of people on it's netwok and not in any way due to concern of breach of copyright on other people's material? The only people who should be concerned about this are the copyright holders themselves, yet for some reason there's loads of people on here who are also bothered.

I only use about 5 GB per month yet I'm not in favour of caps. Apart from the fact that I may want to change my habits in the future, this is the thin end of the wedge. People are going to require more and more bandwidth in the future as files sizes get bigger. I'd expect people to be either against the caps or apathetic, not actively in favour.

scrotnig · 21-02-2005, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

ahh I see now so this isn't about quality of service it is about policing the internet.

It's nothing of the sort.

People burning pirated CDs is an illegal use of the company's bandwidth. Why should the company fork out to allow people to do something that's illegal?

They just want people doing stuff like that to get off the network. They aren't interested in having them prosecuted or anything, just in getting rid of them.

Chrysalis · 21-02-2005, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Gruber

Does anyone have any figures of exactly how much profit NTL will be making from the 1mbit/3gbyte service? They must make a fortune from that kind of service.

In a previous post I think I remember working it out to be somewhere around 60:1 contention.

scrotnig · 21-02-2005, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by cr80123

Yes that's all well and good Neil, and I've no doubt what you say is true in most cases. However do you agree that the reason for imposing limits is to enable ntl to increase the number of people on it's netwok and not in any way due to concern of breach of copyright on other people's material?

What's wrong with the that? The company isn't a charity, and if removing people doing illegal stuff makes room for people who aren't doing illegal stuff, then so much the better.

The arguments in favour of unlimited use are starting to look weaker and weaker as people are now resorting to trying to justify illegal activity.

Chrysalis · 21-02-2005, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill C

Neil

Have a big green rep from me. That is a bang on post. NICE ONE

LOL whilst I disagree with him the way he laid out the post has made me laugh.

downquark1 · 21-02-2005, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrotnig

The arguments in favour of unlimited use are starting to look weaker and weaker as people are now resorting to trying to justify illegal activity.

I'd say the case it getting stronger and stronger as more high bandwidth LEGAL options are comming availiable.

5 years ago nobody would dream of sending a 4 gig beta file over the internet.

Chrysalis · 21-02-2005, 19:31

I would like to see proof there is no operating profit (excluding debt payments)

NTL Would have to be be paying well over the going rate for ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£17 a month to not make a profit on 3 gig traffic.

Or have I forgot how much india call staff wages cost? and the redundancy payments for the sacked engineers?

scrotnig · 21-02-2005, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by downquark1

I'd say the case it getting stronger and stronger as more high bandwidth LEGAL options are comming availiable.

5 years ago nobody would dream of sending a 4 gig beta file over the internet.

You may be right, but I'm talking specifically about the arguments presented in this forum, which have now basically degenrated into 'what right have ntl got to act as internet police and stop me doing illegal things on my ntl connection?', which I'm sure you'll agree is both lame and unconvincing.

Neil · 21-02-2005, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

LOL whilst I disagree with him the way he laid out the post has made me laugh.

What part do you disagree with?

Whilst the post was (obviously) humorous, the point I was making was totally serious.

1) How many game demos are 700 meg each?

1B) How often do/have they come out?

2) How many games that are DVD sized are available for download?

2B) How often do/have they come out?

And regarding my views of what people download-I really don't give a monkey's puffhole what people download (legal or otherwise), just don't leech 50 odd gig per month & try to BS us that it's all legal.

cr80123 · 21-02-2005, 19:40

There's nothing wrong with that Neil, I just wanted to get it clear. Do you not agree with the 2nd paragraph in my post?

downquark1 · 21-02-2005, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrotnig

You may be right, but I'm talking specifically about the arguments presented in this forum, which have now basically degenrated into 'what right have ntl got to act as internet police and stop me doing illegal things on my ntl connection?', which I'm sure you'll agree is both lame and unconvincing.

I can see the libertarian point that the content of the bandwidth is no concerns of ntl. ntl have a right to limit there service, but I'm sure that they are doing this purely for cost reasons than for hurting the warez industry. The whole issue of legal conduct seems simply to justify the well u don't need that much bandwidth anyway argument. Suppose someone downloads the same demo over and over again, or leaves a radio stream running, perfectly legal just a bit of waste.

I have to admit 30 gig a month sounds quite generous, but as I've never bothered to add up my bandwidth usuage I can't tell how it affects me.