NTL unbundle digital from Telco

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by Okonski

Really? The fact it is now published for all to see, you can bet the ASA will be merciless if ntl are telling porkies. The order line is closed until 0900 tomorrow. I'll do it then, or raise a formal complaint for misleading advertising to the ASA. Either way, it STILL backs up what I was originally told on the phone in January.

http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/home
(This is the first page you see on the ntl consumer site)

"The TV price is exclusive of your £9.50 telephone line rental which comes with your TV package".

Big letters too!

Enjoy your wasted complaint to the ASA.
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A better one, wording-wise:
http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/television

"Price excludes your telephone line rental which must be purchased with your TV package."

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Okonski

Really?

Yes, really.

Originally Posted by Okonski

The fact it is now published for all to see

What "facts" would they be then?

The only fact I can see, is that you need to take a telephone line from ntl when you take DTV from them.

Originally Posted by http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/home

The TV price is exclusive of your £9.50 telephone line rental which comes with your TV package.

I've even attached a picture for you.

Originally Posted by Okonski

you can bet the ASA will be merciless if ntl are telling porkies. The order line is closed until 0900 tomorrow. I'll do it then, or raise a formal complaint for misleading advertising to the ASA. Either way, it STILL backs up what I was originally told on the phone in January.

Good luck with your 'plight'!

[Okonski]

You appear to overlook the fact that (a) the change is in the order form that previously would not allow the selection of services without telephone. Your references are for 'old' pages that are yet unchanged - the usual sloppy ntl practice, so no change there then.

As to 'wasting' a complaint to the ASA, if a company makes an offer on their website, then refses to honour it, then they are in trouble. For you to believe that just because they say something to the contrary elsewhere makes it OK is ludicrous. History has a habit of repeating itself, as I recall BB was ONLY available if you took telephone. It isn't now. Or have you forgotten that? Also with VOIP why on earth would I NEED a telephone line when I could use BB? At the end of the day, the customer chooses, and restrictive practices like this are on the way out. Shame you don't see it that way.

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by Okonski

You appear to overlook the fact that (a) the change is in the order form that previously would not allow the selection of services without telephone. Your references are for 'old' pages that are yet unchanged - the usual sloppy ntl practice, so no change there then.

As to 'wasting' a complaint to the ASA, if a company makes an offer on their website, then refses to honour it, then they are in trouble. For you to believe that just because they say something to the contrary elsewhere makes it OK is ludicrous. History has a habit of repeating itself, as I recall BB was ONLY available if you took telephone. It isn't now. Or have you forgotten that? Also with VOIP why on earth would I NEED a telephone line when I could use BB? At the end of the day, the customer chooses, and restrictive practices like this are on the way out. Shame you don't see it that way.

First off, those pages I linked to are NOT old and unchanged, they are the current, accurate main index pages.

Secondly, I know exactly what the situation is. You currently have to take phone with TV at present. The website makes that abundantly clear in great big letters. Sorry if you have a problem with that, but the ASA certainly won't.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by scrotnig

You currently have to take phone with TV at present. The website makes that abundantly clear in great big letters. Sorry if you have a problem with that, but the ASA certainly won't.

That just about sums it up for me.

I'm not one to defend ntl, & I don't like the fact that they force their crabby phone line on unsuspecting DTV customers, but force it they do, & it is there for all to see.

Good luck with the ASA-do let us know what happens!

I can see it now....

Okonski-"Hello, Is that the ASA?"

ASA-"Yes Sir"

Okonski-"I'd like to complain about the fact that ntl force their crabby phone line on Digital TV customers, and the fact that they have it clearly indicated on their website.

ASA-"Riiiiiight Sir"

Okonski-"Not only that, but when you try to order DTV on it's own, you get a pop up telling you that you can't take it on it's own, & it tells you that it will redirect you to a page for you to choose the phone package that you want"

ASA-Oooooo-Kaaaaay Sir"

"Click"

Okonski-"Hello??"

[poolking]

Okonski,

Have you ever thought that the telephone option would be for those that don't want DTV?

[ian@huth]

If you search for NTL in Google you will get a set of sponsored links down the right hand side. Use any of these and you will always get a page coming up before you get to an option to order that states

The TV price is exclusive of your £9.50 telephone line rental which comes with your TV package.

You get exactly the same message if you try through www.ntl.com , www.ntlworld.com , www.askntl.com , www.ntlhome.com , etc.

[russellelly]

Could it be the case that the pop-up only appears if you have an ec-CW postcode. I don't get it (ex-CableTel), and can get as far as the DD page with no mention of phones. Just a theory.

[Okonski]

Here's an update. As CS opened at 0900 this morning (0800 183 0123) I called this number which is for 'upgrading customers'. I requested the addition of DTV, and she confirmed I wished to add this to existing BB. I confirmed that I did. She said the price would be £19.95 for the 'Basic Pack' - I said was that the price including phone? She said it was. I said I didn't need that, and just required DTV. Could she confirm I could have the Family Pack at £19.95 without phone? She agreed that I could, and I asked her to confirm this again to remove any doubt. She did so. The order has been accepted, and the install takes place on Thursday.

I appreciate this will be a great disappointment to those here who will continue to assert there has been no change in ntl policy, but for the rest of you if you want DTV on its own, now's the time!
__________________

Originally Posted by poolking

Okonski,

Have you ever thought that the telephone option would be for those that don't want DTV?

Yes, but then it just evens out the imbalance (or creates a bigger problem). As they'be now verbally accepted my DTV-only request (complete with Family Pack for just £19.95p m) I trust that'll end the controversy!

[poolking]

Okonski,

She may have agreed, but I bet that is down to each individual CS, I bet if you tried it with another CS, they would have insisted that you have the phone as well.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Okonski

Here's an update. As CS opened at 0900 this morning (0800 183 0123) I called this number which is for 'upgrading customers'. I requested the addition of DTV, and she confirmed I wished to add this to existing BB. I confirmed that I did. She said the price would be £19.95 for the 'Basic Pack' - I said was that the price including phone? She said it was. I said I didn't need that, and just required DTV. Could she confirm I could have the Family Pack at £19.95 without phone? She agreed that I could, and I asked her to confirm this again to remove any doubt. She did so. The order has been accepted, and the install takes place on Thursday.

I appreciate this will be a great disappointment to those here who will continue to assert there has been no change in ntl policy, but for the rest of you if you want DTV on its own, now's the time!
__________________



Yes, but then it just evens out the imbalance (or creates a bigger problem). As they'be now verbally accepted my DTV-only request (complete with Family Pack for just £19.95p m) I trust that'll end the controversy!

I don't think that this ends the controversy at all. Without hearing a full transcript of the telephone conversation it is impossible to say what and how questions were asked and answered. If you think about it, anyone can have the Family Pack for £19.95, with or without the phone. Maybe a play on words but that doesn't mean that you don't have to pay for a phone.

I would tend to believe what the more informed NTL staff who post on here have had to say on the subject.

[Okonski]

Originally Posted by ian@huth

I don't think that this ends the controversy at all. Without hearing a full transcript of the telephone conversation it is impossible to say what and how questions were asked and answered. If you think about it, anyone can have the Family Pack for £19.95, with or without the phone. Maybe a play on words but that doesn't mean that you don't have to pay for a phone.

I would tend to believe what the more informed NTL staff who post on here have had to say on the subject.

I disagree. I do have the conversation recorded in case it needs to be referred to at a later stage, but I agreed to the service level and price, and this was duly accepted by an authorised employee. We now have the relevant website page where telephony is shown as an option (on the order form, no less!) and when it was suggested here it 'wouldn't get past' CS, the order was accepted, allbeit with a little prompting on my side. Ntl would have nothing to gain by changing their mind at this late stage, or indeed later as they would be in breach of our agreement.

As to siding with those 'informed ntl staff' I think you'll be let down, as an ex-Cabletel customer of old, they are usually the last to know. Sad, but invariably true.

This debate is now going round in circles, I was challenged to try to effect a DTV connection without phone, and this has been ordered at a tariff of £19.95 for the Family Pack, and £17.95 for BB. As I refuse to permit DDM on my account, they'll not be able to take any more than I agreed to pay. If they do not install on Thursday as arranged I'll advise accordingly here, but the issue is not whether I seemingly 'get away with it', its the many users who are bullied into accepting telephony services they do not want. Glasgow had a major phone outage this week affecting all telephony users connected via the company's AXE10 switch at Braehead (Renfrew). I do not expect traditional wired phone services to be subject to operational difficulties, especially since BT's last outage was over 24 years ago. It is a customer's right to choose, and if they forced me to take a service I didn't want, I'd make alternative arrangements.

This new arrangement benefits them AND the consumer. I suggest if you do not need your telephony service, you call them and cancel. If you do not, then you're hardly best placed to talk from experience.
__________________

Originally Posted by poolking

Okonski,

She may have agreed, but I bet that is down to each individual CS, I bet if you tried it with another CS, they would have insisted that you have the phone as well.

Based on previous experience (since December) I might have agreed with that interpretation, however with the Wed order form now making Phone services an option (than mandatory) it kinda weakens this 'maverick CS' interpretation.

[poolking]

Did I say it was a maverick CS? all I stated that the CS you have spoken to could have been mis-informed.

You are a customer of NTL not an employee and it would have been advertised that you no longer have to have the phone package with the DTV package. I suggest then to end this speculation once and for all you email the MD of NTL Home and get some clarification.

Nothing you have posted kills this argument at all.

[Derek]

From everything I've heard from current employees and the fact it is stated VERY clearly on the various websites you will almost certainly get a line installed.

You will get a discount on the 1st years line rental but eventually you will have to pay for the line.

And BT have outages as well. A few years ago a big chunk of Pollockshaws was out of service for about a week. They alos lost services to Manchester city centre last year for a few days.

[scrotnig]

If a customer in ex-Cable & Wireless regions insists on having just TV and no phone, they can have it. However, they will pay full price for it and won't get any discount.

The exception to this is where for any reason the company cannot provide the phone line, if that hapepns then the vaklue of the line rental will get removed from the bill - somehow!