Now the shoe is on the other foot.... - Page 5

danielf · 13-01-2005, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimizuku no Lew

Funnily enough, every time I've visited the US I've been asked what part of Australia I'm from

Must be your avatar

Shaun · 13-01-2005, 21:32

Can this thread be closed and moved to the staff forum? It really doesn't do this site justice. :bigsad:

I'm begining to wonder exactly when threads on subjects like this began to degrade into bun fights of the worst kind.

Can't put my finger on it now but I'm sure it'll come to me!

**Paul** · 13-01-2005, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellwear

Can this thread be closed and moved to the staff forum? It really doesn't do this site justice.

I see no reason to do this at the moment.

BBKing · 13-01-2005, 22:40

Quote:

How about all the cabbies in London being told they couldn't wave have their little st george cross car flags on display from their cabs during euro2004?

I can find a reference from 1999 here:

http://www.flagwire.com/display_article.asp?id=7242

which suggests it was to do with that year's England-Scotland games.

And there's a thread on Usenet* about it, which suggest that it's a long-standing rule that you can't fly *any* flag on them. Campaign against it if you like, but it's not exactly evidence of a mass attack on Englishness.

*Monster URL, so if you're interested go to Google Groups and search for

Black cab drivers in London cannot display flags etc in their cabs

There's no refutation of it, but the thread is full of barking mad Little Englanders. Quite entertaining.

Quote:

How many Welsh and N Ireland presenters do you know of?

Lots. To whit:

Eamonn Holmes is from Belfast (and since the population of N. Ireland is about 1/45th that of England we're entitled to 45 non-bumptious-Man-United-supporting eejits on our screens, although I must confess to liking his Radio 5 show)
Patrick Kielty
Gloria Hunniford's from Portadown, her (sadly late) daughter Caron Keating too
Roy Walker was born in Belfast
John Thomson, but that's an obscure one lifted from sad man scanning of IMDB.

Wales, well, obviously Sian Lloyd the weather woman (she's a bit past being a weather girl)
Ian Hislop was born in Swansea (but raised in Hong Kong)
Keith 'Vindaloo' Allen was also born in Swansea
Jeremy Bowen, the BBC chap, was born in Cardiff
Huw Edwards, other BBC chap, Bridgend
John Humphrys, BBC self-promoting hard-questioner, Cardiff
Julian Cope the musician
Peter Greenaway the film director
Ioan Gruffudd
....

I could go on (you may note I got up to 'G' in the alphabet), but at least three senior BBC broadcast journalists from Wales is a fair old representation of five million people, while Northern Ireland is positively bursting with talent, and Eamonn Holmes.

*Edit: Ooh, and I forgot Colwyn Bay's finest, Terry Jones, who's excellent Medieval Lives is worth a watch.

Russ · 14-01-2005, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

I could go on (you may note I got up to 'G' in the alphabet), but at least three senior BBC broadcast journalists from Wales is a fair old representation of five million people, while Northern Ireland is positively bursting with talent, and Eamonn Holmes.

*Edit: Ooh, and I forgot Colwyn Bay's finest, Terry Jones, who's excellent Medieval Lives is worth a watch.

Read my post again - in your haste to try and prove me wrong you omitted to notice where I asked for presenters, not musicians, actors etc.

And I also mentioned being Welsh, as opposed to those with a tenuous link. On the basis of what you've supplied I'm assuming you're one of those folk who believe Vinnie Jones is Welsh too?

Stuart · 14-01-2005, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

Read my post again - in your haste to try and prove me wrong you omitted to notice where I asked for presenters, not musicians, actors etc.

And I also mentioned being Welsh, as opposed to those with a tenuous link. On the basis of what you've supplied I'm assuming you're one of those folk who believe Vinnie Jones is Welsh too?

Since when has being born in a country been a tenuous link?

Anyway, on to the list

All the irish people are or have been presenters..
Keith Alan has presented (amongst other things).
Huw Edwards presents the news.
Sian Lloyd presents the weather.
John Humphries presents the today show on Radio 4.

The others are an assortment of actors, musicians etc, I'll admit.

BTW, Vinnie jones was born in Watford so some us Londoners may consider him almost a Northerner...

Russ · 14-01-2005, 01:33

Keith Allan has presented what? I'll agree about John Humphries and Huw Edwards (even though when he first started out on the 6 o'clock news, loads of English people complained to the BBC that they didn't want a Welshman reading 'their' news - hello, the 6 o'Clock News is for the UK!!), and Sian Lloyd is a Meteorologist who also presents the weather (far less than she used to).

zoombini · 14-01-2005, 08:31

Quote:

If the boot was on the other foot, if we all emigrated to Saudi Arabia or somewhere and the women wore the dresses, and we carried on our customs

Is this suggesting that here it's the men that wear the dresses? Perhaps at the weekends maybe, but always while wearing boots

What has the flag got to do with a religious march anyway?

Bifta · 14-01-2005, 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

Keith Allan has presented what? I'll agree about John Humphries and Huw Edwards (even though when he first started out on the 6 o'clock news, loads of English people complained to the BBC that they didn't want a Welshman reading 'their' news - hello, the 6 o'Clock News is for the UK!!), and Sian Lloyd is a Meteorologist who also presents the weather (far less than she used to).

Sian Lloyd has been presenting the weather every night for the last few weeks, I don't remember after which news or on what channel, but it was definately her with her big box shaped head.

BBKing · 14-01-2005, 08:45

Quote:

nd I also mentioned being Welsh, as opposed to those with a tenuous link.

First off, define Welsh. I'm saying (narrowly) Welsh born, which excludes someone like my mate Jim who despite growing up in the Rhondda, Abergavenny and Raglan and having a Welsh accent and being a massive Wales rugby fan, was born in Southampton, but includes my aunt Ceri who was born in Wales to a Welsh mother but English father but has lived in England for many years and has no trace of Welsh accent. We could switch to using 'qualifies for the Welsh football team' if you like, but that would just be ridiculous. Vinnie was born in Watford of course.

Quote:

in your haste to try and prove me wrong you omitted to notice where I asked for presenters, not musicians, actors etc.

They are all presenters, in the literal sense, even though some are much more famous for other things. I'm including presenting obscure documentaries, weather forecasts and awards ceremonies, but that's still presenting. You didn't qualify your question by saying 'mainly known as presenters' so I didn't qualify my answer, except by limiting myself to people I'd actually heard of (which means there are almost certainly many more).

In any case, that list isn't exhaustive. You can have
Griff Rhys Jones of Cardiff (who presented Restoration),
Martyn Lewis of Swansea (newsreader),
the late Johnny Morris of Newport (presented Animal Magic),
Cliff Morgan of Trebanog, wherever that is, who's presented loads of things including Radio 4's sports programme when I was growing up.
Jonathan Pryce of Holywell, who's done lots of documentary voice-overs,
the late Sir Harry Secombe of Swansea (Songs of Praise)
Paul Whitehouse of Cardiff, who's done everything including present one of those Top Ten whatever programmes that C4 do instead of real television.

That's just the men, incidentally. Let's keep Sian Lloyd company with a few more Welsh women presenters:

Charlotte Church (Llandaff) presented an episode of Have I Got News For You, so she's in
Dawn French (Holyhead) presented 'The Sitcom Story'
Carol Vorderman of Prestatyn (absolutely shed loads of stuff)
Anneka Rice of Cowbridge (again, lots)
the late Paula Yates of Colwyn Bay (Big Breakfast, if you needed telling)
Catherine Zeta-Jones has presented Oscars to people

Good heavens, it's an invasion. We must fight the over-representation of the Welsh on British TV.

Actually it's 20, of which three are deceased. Still, 17 out of a country of under 3 million people can't be bad. There's a strong case for saying that male BBC news presenters are rather too Welsh recently. The population of England being 15 times that of Wales, we have to find 60 top-rank English BBC news presenters in the last ten years to have equality, and since many are Scottish (James Naughtie) or Irish (Dermot Murnaghan) that's going to be tricky.

I'll sign off here, with a petulant Welsh voice coming out of my radio. John Humphrys.

nffc · 14-01-2005, 08:59

Aled Jones?

BBKing · 14-01-2005, 09:05

Left him off - not sure if he's presented anything rather than being a guest or singer. By all means stick him on the list if he's done that.

nffc · 14-01-2005, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

Left him off - not sure if he's presented anything rather than being a guest or singer. By all means stick him on the list if he's done that.

Songs of Praise, Classic FM early on Sunday mornings... yeah he's a presenter...

**Chris** · 14-01-2005, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ D

I think "Northern Irish" meant those from Northern Ireland.

Ahh yes, the car flags which the authorites considered 'dangerous' - yep, daft idea indeed but certainly nothing to do with the flags being English, it was because some beaurocrat decided they were potentially 'hazardous' to other road users...

I understand that for many English people (present company excepted of course!) there is a huge catering pack of McCain's oven chips on their shoulders over their nationality, as if there is an underground campaign to allow "the taffs, paddies and scots" to celebrate their nations whilst stiffling England from doing the same.

Not so.

We don't get St David celebrated in any noteworthy way, I'm sure it's the same for Sts Andrew and Patrick. We don't get days off for them either.

The media is controlled by England (and to some extent Scotland). How many Welsh and N Ireland presenters do you know of?

We have nothing against the English being proud to be English - all the power to you for doing so, we should be free in our patriotic celebrations. However when you refer to England as Britain and vice versa and subsequently think nothing of it, then it creates friction. There are very clear differences between the two, so why is it done? Ignorance (towards the other home nations) or forgetfulness?

Russ my mate, you're not going to win the presenters row ... so let's divert back to the topic, which is flags, seeing as you mentioned them

The reason why the Union Flag is waved by England fans is that for most of the last 300 years, and especially in the 19th century, the Union was pushed as our national identity over and above England, and England is the single largest part of the Union, England's capital is the capital of the Union, and the Parliament and Monarch of the United Kingdom are situated in our capital. Thus, we didn't feel nearly so culturally threatened as either Wales or Scotland and saw no need to cultivate our uniqueness in the same way that you did. Even today, Government buildings in England by law fly the Union flag on St George's Day. If they choose to fly St George's Cross, they have to fly it in addition and not instead of. In Scotland, St Andrew's Cross is flown on St Andrew's Day, instead of the Union flag, although in Wales you prefer that somewhat artificial banner with the dragon on it instead of your saint's cross, which is arguably the 'true' national flag of Wales (see attachment for an image of the St David Cross), and fly that on St David's Day instead of the Union flag.

So, it's not surprising that until very recently a lot of English people had difficulty separating the concepts of England and the United Kingdom. However, all that has begun to change. Euro 96 was when I first remember noticing a large number of English flags at an England game. More recently, devolution in Wales and Scotland has caused English people to consider what their own identity might be. I wouldn't go so far as to say we have a big bag of McCain's on our shoulders over it - I don't hear of any big campaign for English devolution. When you hear English people complaining about flags, it's usually with reference to this topic, that it is forbidden for fear of offending ethnic minorities, rather than Welsh or Scottish people. Although I know from experience that waving an England flag on a Welsh street after a 6-nations game can be a dangerous thing. Or actually, simply being English on a Welsh street ...

Russ · 14-01-2005, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBKing

<snip>

Just being born being in Wales does not make you Welsh IMO. How Welsh does Ian Hislop consider himself? None at all. Christian Bale? None at all.

Nice list of 'presenters' however they are more commonly known by other professions, such as actors, singers etc.

If you could stick to presenters by treade, that would be nice. Not part-time presenters, not occasional presenters, not "ok-who-can-we-get-in-to-replace-Angus-Deaton-this-week" presenters.