[Merged] New Mac Mini/iPod

Originally Posted by BBKing

is rock solid reliable, 256Mb RAM, Duron 600Mhz (ok, it's old)

Sounds like what I'm going to do with my system, but has a Duron 1800MHZ and 512MB memory

[BBKing]

Ah, but I built mine when dinosaurs roamed the Earth.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by BBKing

Definitely tempted here - I have a server under my stairs which is 55cm high, built out of battleship steel, is rock solid reliable, 256Mb RAM, Duron 600Mhz (ok, it's old) and runs FreeBSD 4 <snip>

Sounds like the PC under my desk..

It has a Celeron 600, 256 Meg Ram. About 28 gig of storage on assorted hard drives and runs Windows 2000 Server, coldfusion server, flash comms server, IIS and Windows Media Server (all fully patched and protected by firewall). It's my second PC at work, and I use it to play around with Server side stuff and web development. As I pointed out to my Boss, no one else needs it (it's too low powered for XP) and it's better I play around on my own server rather than the production servers. That way, if I bugger it up, nobody is affected apart from me.

I also use it for Lab managment stuff.

The MacMini is interesting though. I won't be buying one. At home I already have a Tower PC and a laptop running XP Pro, another Tower running 2003 server, all running licenced copies of Windows (Ahh, the joys of working for a Uni that's a member of the "Microsoft Academic Alliance" - I get one copy of each development tool or OS free, although I did buy my first copy of XP at the standard student price), so an extra Mac will be difficult to justify.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Tristan

Looks nice. But cheap? Hmmm...

At the current exchange rate, $499 = £265.77 . Add on 17.5% VAT and you come up with a theoretical street price of £312.28 .

Yet I bet anyone that that will magically jump to £399 (or more) when it's launched in the UK...

But would you be happy if the price fluctuated daily as the exchange rate moved? £312 today, £330 next week, £299 the following? When does the price fix? When the retailer buys it from apple, when they sell it to you?
Who pays to put it on a plane/boat over here? Who pays the import duties and customs clearance fees.
If you import from outside the EU you soon realise why a simple conversion never works.

You also need to remember that the $499 is the ex tax price in the US, most US customers (except those in New Hampshire) will pay sales tax on that price. This can easily be up to 8% these days.

[Tristan]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

But would you be happy if the price fluctuated daily as the exchange rate moved? £312 today, £330 next week, £299 the following? When does the price fix? When the retailer buys it from apple, when they sell it to you?
Who pays to put it on a plane/boat over here? Who pays the import duties and customs clearance fees.
If you import from outside the EU you soon realise why a simple conversion never works.

You also need to remember that the $499 is the ex tax price in the US, most US customers (except those in New Hampshire) will pay sales tax on that price. This can easily be up to 8% these days.

I realise the $499 is excluding sales tax, which is why I added on VAT after I did the conversion (it's not just those from New Hampshire who avoid the tax -- internet purchases are exempt, too).

And I'm not expecting to pay £312. I just used it as an example because, historically, Apple have used something like a £1=$1 exchange rate for their products in the UK, and so I was fully expecting the new Mac to start at £400. The fact that it's not is refreshing, to say the least!

(I don't think shipping fees are relevent, though: these things will almost certainly be assembled in the Far East, and so getting them to Europe will if anything be cheaper than getting them to the States.)

[Stuart]

I think the only problem Apple have is the relatively slow CPU speed.

Joe Soap, who knows nothing about about computers will go into PC world, see these Macs that the price ticket/spec sheet on the shelf will tell him runs at 1.25 Ghz, then in another part of the store, will see a PC that comes with monitor, keyboard, mouse and at least a 2.5Ghz processor, but for a similar price.

I would say he would go for the PC. He would not know that the Mac is more efficient for a lot of things, so the speed difference isn't actually that great.

[Jarandco]

Did everyone miss my post its on the APPLE UK site for £339, go have a look for yourselfs!

http://www.apple.com/uk/macmini/

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Bifta

If I'm spending 2 grand, I want something that's going to PERFORM like 2 grands worth of machine, not end up paying a premium for how it looks.

You are but many will buy for the asthetic appeal too. This argument can be applied to the Zen vs iPod, BMW Mini vs Ford Fiesta and almost any consumer product. Both do a similar job (to most users) one looks nicer and has a status symbol element built into its pricing.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

You are but many will buy for the asthetic appeal too. This argument can be applied to the Zen vs iPod, BMW Mini vs Ford Fiesta and almost any consumer product. Both do a similar job (to most users) one looks nicer and has a status symbol element built into its pricing.

Plus Apple has a lot of iPod fans who having used the iPod may well buy this.

[BBKing]

As for the low clock speed, yes, Joe P isn't up on the intricacies of RISC, superscalar architecture and pipeling, but Intel (which is what he'll be comparing against) are going to have to move away from pure clock speed to model numbers, as their best performing chip is the Pentium M, which has clock speeds in the same range as the G4.

The Mac mini is no worldbeater at performance, but neither is a similarly priced Dell Celeron box, the difference is in the space requirement, aesthetics (which you now *aren't* paying a premium for) and ease of use. I think (and the office Mac head disagrees with me here, he thinks it's aimed at old G3 iMac users like him) that it's aimed at people looking to upgrade an existing Windows PC, and the sell is 'take your current monitor, mouse and keyboard (if they're USB), bin the large noisy case and sit this on your desk, and did I mention that it's as cheap or cheaper than any replacement PC you might be thinking of'. I think they'll sell shedloads.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by BBKing

As for the low clock speed, yes, Joe P isn't up on the intricacies of RISC, superscalar architecture and pipeling, but Intel (which is what he'll be comparing against) are going to have to move away from pure clock speed to model numbers, as their best performing chip is the Pentium M, which has clock speeds in the same range as the G4.

The Centrino is also pretty quick for its clock speed.

EDIT

Intel Centrino mobile technology includes the following components:
Intel® Pentium ® M processor
Intel® 855 chipset family
Intel® PRO/Wireless Network Connection Family

[Stephen]

I am seriously thinking of getting one as a secondry comp for internet access in another room.

[BBKing]

The Centrino is also pretty quick for its clock speed.

Centrino isn't a chip though, it's a marketing term for the combination of a Pentium M with an Intel wireless chipset. The Pentium M is a kicking chip though - clearly faster than a G4 at the same clockspeed - I wouldn't mind a Linux appliance of the same form factor as a Mac mini with one of them in.

[Tristan]

Okay, so I've made my mind up. I want one.

Has anybody got £340 they can lend me?

[BBKing]

No, my 340 nicker is going into a Swiss bank account so my girlfriend doesn't know what I'm buying.

Do you think if I get her an iPod shuffle for Valentine's Day she'll let me have a Mac mini?*

* Permitted answers are 'Yes', 'No' or 'You're effing joking, look out for your balls'