Britain outside the EU

[Carth]

Exactly Seph.

This (and past governments) are/were quite happy to be 'told' what to do and have no ideas of their own on how to proceed . . or maybe they do have ideas but daren't mention them out loud in case it upsets someone

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Government incompetence is the reason for non-accomplishment.

Rejoining the EU would not make any improvement on that.

Your riposte does nothing to justify rejoining.

You keep trotting in that line out, even though you had the arch-Brexiteer Tories in charge for nearly five years (Johnson et al), who binned anyone who wasn't as fervent as them...


It doesn't matter what shade of lipstick you try to use, it's still a pig at the end of the day...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

When the question/topic of rejoining crops up I ask myself a few questions:

Would it improve the NHS/general health system.
Would it improve the education system.
Would it reduce unemployment by a significant amount.
Would it lower my energy bills.
Would it create more new build affordable homes.
Would it reduce waste and pollution by water companies.
Would it greatly reduce the amount of potholes in the road network.
Would it reduce 'grass roots' crime - (burglary, theft, assaults, mindless vandalism etc).

I believe the answer would be no, so what's the point.

Of course other people have a list of their own 'needs and desires'

It would make the country richer so we can spend more money on the police, NHS, councils and other areas without increasing taxes. We could spend money on potholes and not on red tape for exports, for example.

By joininng the electricity single market, energy bills would be cheaper too.

And since we left the EU, regulation of the water companies has been demonstrably weakened.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

It doesn't matter what shade of lipstick you try to use, it's still a pig at the end of the day...

Agreed, it's denial of the purest form.

Just how many more prime ministers do you need Seph before you acknowledge that Brexit has not brought the benefits you dreamed of?

In a way Brexit has made us more European - frequent changes of PM, high taxation and end to stable government!

[papa smurf]

if the eu is so good why do you live here, why not clear off and be happy

[Carth]

I'd like Andrew to explain why and how rejoining the EU will make the UK richer.

The EU aren't really in a position to be throwing money around . . unless it's to buy up the very few profitable businesses we still have, close them down, and rebuild them over there using (probably) cheaper labour

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Carth

I'd like Andrew to explain why and how rejoining the EU will make the UK richer.

The EU aren't really in a position to be throwing money around . . unless it's to buy up the very few profitable businesses we still have, close them down, and rebuild them over there using (probably) cheaper labour

It makes us richer by reducing the red tape when trading with the EU. It also increases the chances that future investents in Europe include the UK on the shortlist.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It makes us richer by reducing the red tape when trading with the EU. It also increases the chances that future investents in Europe include the UK on the shortlist.

It’s because of the EU that we have the red tape and bureaucracy.

I agree that the Conservative government failed to move us forward as they should have done. Without the bonfire of regulations, we were not giving the businesses the freedoms that Brexit was meant to deliver. It’s the EU regulations that are a barrier to business, so this was a prerequisite.

Brexit hasn’t failed, but our politicians have done.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You keep trotting in that line out, even though you had the arch-Brexiteer Tories in charge for nearly five years (Johnson et al), who binned anyone who wasn't as fervent as them...


It doesn't matter what shade of lipstick you try to use, it's still a pig at the end of the day...

You’re only saying what I’m saying. You have not justified rejoining - you have only bemoaned the governments’ failures.


---------- Post added at 14:55 ---------- Previous post was at 14:36 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It would make the country richer so we can spend more money on the police, NHS, councils and other areas without increasing taxes. We could spend money on potholes and not on red tape for exports, for example.

By joininng the electricity single market, energy bills would be cheaper too.

And since we left the EU, regulation of the water companies has been demonstrably weakened.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:40 ----------

Agreed, it's denial of the purest form.

Just how many more prime ministers do you need Seph before you acknowledge that Brexit has not brought the benefits you dreamed of?

In a way Brexit has made us more European - frequent changes of PM, high taxation and end to stable government!

It would make the country richer so we can spend more money on the police, NHS, councils and other areas without increasing taxes.

The Remainers trot out this line without justification. Quoting GDP changes withoput specifics and actions to make GDP increase happen is lazy remainerism. As for red tape on exports, all that can be automated.

By joininng the electricity single market, energy bills would be cheaper too.

How so? Our Net Zero policies are the problem here. Also, if we drill, we can assure gas supply for homes and power by buying all the output up (at market prices). Even I could negotiate such a deal with licencees. Critical to all this is rebuilding our gas storage facilities.

And since we left the EU, regulation of the water companies has been demonstrably weakened.

Oh please. A willing governmnet can regulate the ewater industry as much and as properly as it wants, including use of criminal law. For this industry, Thatcher has much to answer for and all governments since have not regulated this runaway profit taking industry properly.

Just how many more prime ministers do you need Seph before you acknowledge that Brexit has not brought the benefits you dreamed of?

That’s a totally vacuous question. What’s need is a PM that grasps the issue properly, defining what needs to be done to grow the econonomy and stepped benefits that will follow as tghe plan is achieved. This will be very difficult given the years that have passed. But rejoining the EU dows not solve the problem of economic growtrh; rather the opposite - it’ll be easier for them to sell to us.

Actually, this country is well effed due to shot government. It has to be id elections are gonna be won on issues such as the boat people; mind you, that’s terrorism on a plate for you.




---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:55 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It makes us richer by reducing the red tape when trading with the EU. It also increases the chances that future investents in Europe include the UK on the shortlist.

By how much (in annual GBP)? Please back up your argument so that the voter can take that to the referendum booth.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You’re only saying what I’m saying. You have not justified rejoining - you have only bemoaned the governments’ failures.

You misunderstood my statement - Brexit is the pig, successive Governments were just make-up artists and marketing executives trying to convince the Country that Sus scrofa domesticus was, in fact, very attractive, and we simply weren't wearing the appropriate rose-tinted lenses that would show it in it's full splendour...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

You misunderstood my statement - Brexit is the pig, successive Governments were just make-up artists and marketing executives trying to convince the Country that Sus scrofa domesticus was, in fact, very attractive, and we simply weren't wearing the appropriate rose-tinted lenses that would show it in it's full splendour...

That seems to me to be just another form of “polishing the turd” argument. It doesn’t destroy the arguments for leaving the EU, it merely supports what we’ve both been saying: Poor government implemtation of Brexit.

Indeed if the present government could focus on and axchieve an economic growth path, rthen, were we to rejoin the EU and we had a plan to exploit membership, all would be well (Macron willl be gone and Ifreland would go quiet).

[Carth]

No matter which Government comes up with even a half workable plan, there are too many rules and too many fools that will scupper it.

We're all in the (sinking) boat together aren't we